Northern Line Battersea Extension Approved

[ushawk]

London Mayor Boris Johnson has approved the £5.5bn redevelopment of the iconic Battersea Power Station.

Shops, office space and leisure facilities are promised, along with two new Tube stations on the Northern Line.

Plans by the Real Estate Opportunities company will mean the creation of 25,000 jobs and construction of 16,000 homes.

Wandsworth Council approved plans in November, but the Mayor's ruling gives a final go-ahead to the redevelopment.

"Battersea Power Station has long been an iconic feature of the capital's skyline, and these plans will make sure that status is retained for years to come," Mr Johnson said.

"With its future secured through this regeneration, it will once again play a part in driving London's economy."

The landmark will be restored to generate green energy in the future, but its chimneys will be demolished and rebuilt, as they are "beyond repair".

The Grade II listed building opened in 1933 and generated power until 1983.

Restoration of the main power station, including rebuilding the chimneys, will be completed by 2016.

The 2 new stations will be called Nine Elms and Battersea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12063517

http://www.battersea-powerstation.com/#/home

 

[tbtc]

Mixed feelings about this.

Investment is good, but I'd rather the Charing Cross branch of the Northern Line was extended further into south London

 

[Mojo]

Mixed feelings about this.

Investment is good, but I'd rather the Charing Cross branch of the Northern Line was extended further into south London

Like Morden?

 

[Waddon]

I wonder if the tube link has actually been funded? It says the tube stations are 'promised' but who's paying for them? Even a property development this big won't make enough profit to pay for a tube extension...

Anyway, it seems like the wrong destination for the Northern line, it doesn't need more passengers being pumped into the central section, especially as there's good NR rail links from Battersea... won't do anything for the horrible bottlenecks at Northern Line Clapham stations.

They should build a fast line from Kennington to Balham, stopping at Stockwell only and then all stations to Morden, with all trains through Clapham stations terminating at Balham... but thats just too sensible a solution...

 

[N Levers]

They should build a fast line from Kennington to Balham, stopping at Stockwell only and then all stations to Morden, with all trains through Clapham stations terminating at Balham... but thats just too sensible a solution...

Would you have the fast lines coming off the the CX branch or the Bank Branch?

 

[Fred26]

I'd for it. Any rail extensions gets my vote.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

1) Don't count on it until it actually starts! Over the past 20 years we have seen scheme after scheme for Battersea Power Station fail through lack of funding and each scheme was bigger than the preceeding one. Hopefully this one will finally break the curse, though.

2) I guess this means the end for unofficial spins round the Kennington loop then?

 

[robertclark125]

Who remembers the last serious leisure proposal for Battersea, which led to the artists impressions making it into the April 1989 edition of Motive Power Monttthly, of the Battersea Bullet trains, alas never built?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That was first proposals, I think.

There have been about 5 or 6 more in between, each increasingly expensive and ambitious and proclaimed by the media as being the definitive solution!:roll:

 

[robertclark125]

There have been about 5 or 6 more in between, each increasingly expensive and ambitious and proclaimed by the media as being the definitive solution!:roll:

Does anyone have a clue what the definitive solution is, apart from knocking the whole b****y structure down and starting again?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well, I certainly haven't! Unless the definitive plan is to make it a laughing stock.


Anyway, they can't knock it down - it's listed. Though if they leave it open to the elements for long enough....

Oh.

Hang on!

Maybe that's their masterplan....

 

[Waddon]

Would you have the fast lines coming off the the CX branch or the Bank Branch?

Ideally I would have an arrangement that both lines could use the fast, but practically I suppose the fast lines would come off the loop at Kennington, so Charing X line trains would take the fast lines to Balham then all stops to Morden, Bank line trains all stations to Balham, extended to Morden at peak times...

 

[Gavelex]

Only a matter of time until the "accidental" fire starts that have been seen at so many other derelict listed buildings that have just been brought for development.

Having seen inside myself, I don't think it will last much longer on it's own mind you!

 

[Dstock7080]

Does anyone have a clue what the definitive solution is, apart from knocking the whole b****y structure down and starting again?

They've already stated that the chimneys will have to come down and be "rebuilt", possibly a slight slip and the whole lot accidentally falls down.

 

[At_traction]

So, they took heed of my wish for a Chelsea/Battersea branch; albeit not as a Picc or Vic branch - and from the "wrong" direction...

http://www.battersea-powerstation.com/#/home

http://www.railforums.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=3527&stc=1&d=1293390404

Is there a Reason for the tracks extending from the Kennington loop being spread in wide arcs (approx. 500 metres wide in all) until joining almost 1½ kilometres from the station...? Yes, there is the Morden branch and the Oval station, but these surely shouldn't require such a wide bypass.

Anyway, it seems like the wrong destination for the Northern line, it doesn't need more passengers being pumped into the central section, especially as there's good NR rail links from Battersea...

Battersea/Queenstown Road station, the nearest station directly towards Southwark and City is rather far away from the redevelopment directly around the power station. Even Battersea Park towards Victoria is notably further than the planned tube station. The less you need to rely (both as a planner and a passenger) on feeder buses, the better.

won't do anything for the horrible bottlenecks at Northern Line Clapham stations.

Agreed.

 

[Mojo]

At_traction, I can't get your link to work, is it a map of the route? Only reason I might think of is how they come off the loop, but I'd need to see a link.

I'm quite excited about this, it might prove a nice area and place which I might like to live in the future (never would have thought I'd want to live south of the river!)

 

[At_traction]

At_traction, I can't get your link to work, is it a map of the route? Only reason I might think of is how they come off the loop, but I'd need to see a link.

Thanx for the tip. It worked all right when I tried it in preview, but... Should work now though.

 

[swt_passenger]

...Is there a Reason for the tracks extending from the Kennington loop being spread in wide arcs (approx. 500 metres wide in all) until joining almost 1½ kilometres from the station...? Yes, there is the Morden branch and the Oval station, but these surely shouldn't require such a wide bypass.

Two things I can think of, although just guesses really. One is that if the junctions are further round the loop they will introduce reverse curves which may incur an unnecessary speed limit, the other is that branching where they do might still allow for a train to be 'parked out the way' on the loop, if all trains don't run down to Battersea?

 

[cle]

So according to that map, the lines will completely miss Vauxhall and any interchange there.

And no talk of continuing down to Clapham Junction? I thought TfL has said if it went to Battersea, they'd complete to CJ?

 

[Class377/5]

So according to that map, the lines will completely miss Vauxhall and any interchange there.

And no talk of continuing down to Clapham Junction? I thought TfL has said if it went to Battersea, they'd complete to CJ?

I believe hen they looked into it the line would be so over crowded at Clapham Junction the new station's would be able to use the line in the peaks due to masses expected.

Same really as its needed.

 

[cle]

Possibly true, but surely 30tph could handle the traffic?

It wouldn't help those headed to the City too much, who would stay on SW trains and take the W&C. From Southern trains, I'm not sure - they'd probably be quicker swapping to platform 10, or taking the tube east from Victoria.

And for the West End, it'll probably be as quick to stay on until Victoria/Waterloo and take the Victoria or Northern/Bakerloo from there.

So it's really just for local journeys, people who need Charing Cross Road/TCR specifically, and a welcome alternative to the general West End journey.

 

[swt_passenger]

I believe hen they looked into it the line would be so over crowded at Clapham Junction the new station's would be able to use the line in the peaks due to masses expected.

Same really as its needed.

What you mean is surely that trains from Clapham Jn in the peaks would be unusable at the new Battersea station, because they would already be full.

I agree though that TfL have never seriously considered extending to Clapham Jn (CJ). It's the same with Chelney/Crossrail 2. Many posts in different rail forums suggest it will have to go to CJ, yet every official publication shows the route taking over the District line from East Putney to Wimbledon.

I suspect one of the issues with CJ is that a prospective underground station there would also need to include a new interchange route to all the existing platforms at CJ, as the existing subway certainly wouldn't cope. The other problem is that this Northern extension only leads on to one line - the route via Charing Cross. Carrying mainline passengers through to Waterloo, Vauxhall and Victoria distributes the potential interchanging passengers widely onto many more lines at underground stations that are theoretically already designated as major interchanges. (Or as at Victoria are already undergoing massive redevelopment because of this.)

ISTM that CJ could only have ever been developed as a major NR/LU interchange if a much larger selection of underground lines were available there, and because firstly they aren't available, and secondly such interchanges already exist elsewhere, it is a non starter.

 

[Dstock7080]

Possibly true, but surely 30tph could handle the traffic?

I doubt you would get 30TPH on the Battersea Park extension and you must remember this has to fit in with the rest of the Northern service somewhere, either Kennington or Camden.

 

[jopsuk]

If you sorted out Camden to allow the lines to split 30tph should be achievable

 

[317 forever]

If you sorted out Camden to allow the lines to split 30tph should be achievable

I think the Northern Line will be split into High Barnet - Bank - Morden (with a branch line and peak connections to Mill Hill East) and Edgware - Charing Cross - Battersea.

There was a time when there were more trains from Golders Green to Charing Cross than Bank but splitting this way will reduce or even eliminate crossovers at Camden Town.

 

[Ivo]

Speaking of which, does anyone know what would happen to the name "Northern Line" if this split does occur? Surely both couldn't share the name given they would be operationally separate?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have not heard anything, no - but if it was me I would keep "Northern Line" for the longer bit down to Morden and change the name of the short bit ( confuses fewer people that way, and also fewer stations to rebrand! ).

You have set me thinking on what the bit via Waterloo to Battersea could be called now; I wonder about something like the Western Line - then if they did want to re-name both bits, the other branch could be called the Eastern Line...

It would be so much simpler if they just numbered the lines like the Paris Metro do wouldn't it?

 

[Mojo]

Bear in mind that neither the Victoria or Central lines have 30tph through central London in the peaks (it's something like 28/27tph)! I'd be surprised to see 30tph down the Charing + branch given how quiet it is even in peak hours!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's not all that quiet - several times recently in the morning peak at Waterloo northbound I've had to let two or three trains go before I could get on one, and that's right at the front of the platform - it's even more packed in the middle!

 

[Mojo]

Ah, sorry I'm talking about Southbound services. I'd forgotten about those people on the wrong side of the river Northbound will be quite busy as there aren't many Tubes in south London. It's not helped by the fact that the 1995 stock is only 6 cars.

Only if there is disruption is it every busy Southbound. I use it every morning from Goodge Street heading south at about 08.10 and can get a seat 2 out of 5 days, and the other 3 out of 5 days I can get a seat at Tottenham Court Road. Come Embankment about 90% of the remaining passengers get off the train.