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Northern Line (Bank branch) long term engineering work

Mikey C

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Just got this email from TfL

From Monday 12 January until late spring, there will be no service between Camden Town and Kennington (via Bank) on Monday to Thursday evenings after 22:00. This is while we carry out track renewal works.

After 22:00 on Mondays to Thursdays, services will still run between Camden Town and Kennington, via Charing Cross. On Friday evenings and at weekends, services via Bank will also run as normal. Night Tube services via Charing Cross are not affected. Please allow more time for your journey, using alternative Tube, bus and rail routes.

Is this a new approach, doing extended midweek nighttime work, rather than weekend closures? In the last couple of years, the number of weekend closures of the Northern Line through the core seems way less than it used to be.
 
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Recessio

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It was only a few years ago that a lot of the Bank branch was closed while the new platforms were built at Bank right? I'm surprised they need to long term engineering work so soon. It does seem sensible to me to do it Monday-Thursday evenings though
 

computerSaysNo

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Are trains which normally run via Bank ran as normal but via Charing Cross during these types of closures?
 

Mikey C

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It was only a few years ago that a lot of the Bank branch was closed while the new platforms were built at Bank right? I'm surprised they need to long term engineering work so soon. It does seem sensible to me to do it Monday-Thursday evenings though
I would perhaps query Thursday evenings, which are a busy time with all the people dossing working from home on Friday! A lot of people will be out that evening, and not all the stations have alternative tube/rail connections.
 

Recessio

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I would perhaps query Thursday evenings, which are a busy time with all the people dossing working from home on Friday! A lot of people will be out that evening, and not all the stations have alternative tube/rail connections.
Actually that's a good point, "Thursdays are the new Fridays" is something I hear quite often!
 

Watershed

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The vagueness of the finish date, combined with TfL's history of overrunning major projects (Kentish Town etc.) doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence that this will finish in "late Spring" as claimed. It's rather inconvenient personally as I have a regular commitment near Angel on Thursdays which typically finishes at 21:30, so it'll be pushing it for me to make the last Tube. Certainly no time to join others in the pub afterwards.

And of course, TfL haven't put in place any ticket acceptance or automatic PAYG refunds for those who have to take a bus as a result...
 

Class15

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The vagueness of the finish date, combined with TfL's history of overrunning major projects (Kentish Town etc.) doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence that this will finish in "late Spring" as claimed. It's rather inconvenient personally as I have a regular commitment near Angel on Thursdays which typically finishes at 21:30, so it'll be pushing it for me to make the last Tube. Certainly no time to join others in the pub afterwards.

And of course, TfL haven't put in place any ticket acceptance or automatic PAYG refunds for those who have to take a bus as a result...
Is it possible to bus it to Highbury & Islington, then Overground to Camden? Or bus it to Euston?
 

Watershed

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Is it possible to bus it to Highbury & Islington, then Overground to Camden? Or bus it to Euston?
Bus to Euston or taking the Elizabeth line from Farringdon to Tottenham Court Road (via the Barbican entrance) are probably the least worst alternatives.
 

Mikey C

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I had my first experience of this tonight, walking to the Cannon Street entrance to Bank station and wondering why it was shut. Then remembering!
 

coach fan

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What utter nonsense. This branch was closed only two years ago. So no track at all was replaced then? Are they replacing the entire branch? Surely they can do this “track renewal” work during normal evening hours? Why do they need an extra three hours per night?

My journey from Victoria now will be more expensive as Highbury and Islington is zone 2 so that adds costs. Changing halfway and getting a bus adds costs. Oh. That’s why TfL did it then. My bad!
 

Hadders

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Normal overnight engineering hours are only c.4 hours, not going to get much done in that time once you get everything down there and back up again each night.
 

bramling

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It was only a few years ago that a lot of the Bank branch was closed while the new platforms were built at Bank right? I'm surprised they need to long term engineering work so soon. It does seem sensible to me to do it Monday-Thursday evenings though

The previous closure was Moorgate to Kennington, so that didn’t cover the whole section. I know at least one section being done this time is KX to Angel SB.

A few thoughts on this. Generally LU does surface track renewal during weekend closures, and this tends to include the sub surface lines as well. Tube track replacement by contrast tends to be done overnight. I’m not sure if this is simply because Tube lines are generally busier and therefore it’s to reduce disruption, or whether logistically it just works better. Not all replacement is the same, as in some cases the underlying support structure will be renewed, at other times it’s literally just the rails changed. Due to its history as being an older line, parts of the Northern Line have less usual support structures, such as concrete between the sleepers, which presumably will require more work then elsewhere.

My suspicion is this is about cost. On a normal night you will only get a couple of hours useful work, as the engineering hours window is essentially 4 hours which also includes having to set up and clear away. By extending the time it allows a full shift of work, which is likely what is being paid for anyway, so in theory it would reduce the number of shifts required for the full programme of work, so producing a cost saving.

I doubt this method would be used elsewhere, as it’s likely been chosen for the Northern because of the two branches, so it’s fairly easy to implement. The other alternative is weekend closures, which people would probably dislike.
 

gfa

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Is it possible to bus it to Highbury & Islington, then Overground to Camden? Or bus it to Euston?
Its only about a 10 minute walk over to Kings Cross from Angel.

While a pain most of the stations are pretty well served by other lines.
 

rebmcr

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Course not. Tfl are a to be trusted organisation that isn’t bent at all.
If they were going to manipulate journey behaviour to increase farebox revenue, they could do it far, far more effectively than a tiny minority of obscure late-evening flows that just happen to affect you in particular.

Also, it's unclear why you even think you need to change at Highbury rather than at a different Zone 1 station.
 

coach fan

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Because I live between Angel and Highbury perhaps?

But Angel is zone 1. Highbury is zone 2.
 

bcarmicle

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Are any of our TfL/LU insiders able to share an idea of when this closure may finish? I’d heard rumours of end of May but if so presumably TfL would have announced by now that normal service would resume next week.
 

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