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Northern introduce pre-Christmas loco hauled services

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Howardh

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What does loco hauled deployment mean to me, the common man :oops:?
 

northwichcat

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What does loco hauled deployment mean to me, the common man :oops:?

A separate engine and carriages, opposed to a multiple unit where you have the driving cabs and engines built in to the carriages. Loco hauled tends to be popular with enthusiasts.

On this picture the one on the left is loco-hauled and the one on the right is a multiple unit: http://sulzerpower.com/tourdefrance6_shauncourtnage.jpg
 
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SeanG

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Trains will be hauled by locomotives.

No signs towards what they'd be but my money is on DRS stuff
 

Howardh

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A separate engine and carriages, opposed to a multiple unit where you have the driving cabs and engines built in to the carriages. Loco hauled tends to be popular with enthusiasts.

On this picture the one on the left is loco-hauled and the one on the right is a multiple unit: http://sulzerpower.com/tourdefrance6_shauncourtnage.jpg

Like the old inter-city trains then with the engine in front dragging the carriages? What tangible benefit will there be to the passenger - more trains, more seats, or is it to replace lost capacity? If there is a benefit, why wasn't it done when Bolton lost services earlier this year?

But if it's good news then *applause* !
 

Adam0984

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Manchester trains were murder last year on a weekend particularly. Hopefully they may venture east to Leeds too. Putting LH on releases DMus for other routes to be strengthened.
 

hairyhandedfool

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The Christmas Markets led to a large number of travellers last year and, with other towns and cities also having them, there was no extra stock to use on additional services (even if there was capacity). Whilst I think extra services on the Bolton corridor would be welcomed by many, I can't help thinking that using the stock on regular services would not only increase capacity on that line, but also allow services on other lines to benefit from extra units.
 
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3141

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Like the old inter-city trains then with the engine in front dragging the carriages? What tangible benefit will there be to the passenger - more trains, more seats, or is it to replace lost capacity? If there is a benefit, why wasn't it done when Bolton lost services earlier this year?

But if it's good news then *applause* !

I wondered if your original question meant "What's all the excitement about?"

Some people feel that loco-hauled trains are special, perhaps because most trains these days are multiple units.

From a passenger's point of view, the most important thing is that there's a train, preferably with an available seat.
 

L&Y Robert

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Trains will be hauled by locomotives.

Will the engine have to "Run round" at the end of the line? They did in my day. But I suppose they could be push-pull, but then the coaches would have to be wired up for controls, all the way through, and one of 'em have a driving cab at the end! Wouldn't it? That's not cheap, either. And where are these coaches going to come from? Are there sidings full of old coaches somewhere?
 
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hairyhandedfool

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Will the engine have to "Run round" at the end of the line?...

Probably 'Top and Tail' formation. Locos at either end of the train. One pulls the train one way and, when it gets to it's destination, the other pulls it back, a bit like a multiple unit really.
 

L&Y Robert

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Probably 'Top and Tail' formation. Locos at either end of the train. One pulls the train one way and, when it gets to it's destination, the other pulls it back, a bit like a multiple unit really.

Both ends, I think you mean. If it were 'either end', I'd choose to have it at the front!

But that's two engines for every train. Have they got enough? More sidings somewhere, this time full of engines!
 
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Tim R-T-C

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The big plus is that it will allow extra capacity and possibly extra services on the routes, without needing to take stock from other lines.

Despite what twitter and media writers seem to think, there is no big stockpile of extra stock lying around, almost every usable multiple unit in the country is allocated to a service.

There is however a fair deal of surplus passenger coaching stock, hence the use of loco hauled stock on these routes rather than multiple units.

It shows good forward thinking from Northern that few of their rivals have bothered with. Cf. Scotrail liberally using Edinburgh commuter stock during the Commonwealth games.
 

hairyhandedfool

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Both ends, I think you mean. If it were 'either end', I'd choose to have it at the front!

But that's two engines for every train. Have they got enough? More sidings somewhere, this time full of engines!

Yes, sorry, wasn't thinking straight on that one, two locos, one at each end.

They will be hired from another company, DRS probably, who usually have stock to spare.
 

WatcherZero

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They usually put on a shuttle between Victoria and Bolton during the christmas shopping period (Nov/Dec) along with other Atherton/Bolton line service strengthenings. This year they seem to be thinking of using a LHCS service for it, possibly as rolling stocks tight. Replacing a Bolton service with a Loco and Rake frees up some stock to lengthen other Atherton/Westhoughton services while still increasing Preston-Bolton-Manchester capacity.

With the single line working next year going to see reduced frequency with services strengthened to 4/6 car length and people encouraged to use Atherton and Preston via Wigan routes. Think Northern also might run Preston via Chat Moss service in addition to TPE during the Bolton blockade.
 
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yorksrob

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Definately a good idea.

Saturday evening services from Victoria along the Calder Valley line are often pandemonium so I hope they get strengthened as well.
 

thealexweb

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This is great news if it happens :)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They usually put on a shuttle between Victoria and Bolton during the christmas shopping period (Nov/Dec) along with other Atherton/Bolton line service strengthenings. This year they seem to be thinking of using a LHCS service for it, possibly as rolling stocks tight. Replacing a Bolton service with a Loco and Rake frees up some stock to lengthen other Atherton/Westhoughton services while still increasing Preston-Bolton-Manchester capacity.

With the single line working next year going to see reduced frequency with services strengthened to 4/6 car length and people encouraged to use Atherton and Preston via Wigan routes. Think Northern also might run Preston via Chat Moss service in addition to TPE during the Bolton blockade.

If the Todmorden Curve had opened on time it could have taken all the Blackburn commuters :/
 

Mugby

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Sounds like a throwback to the famous 'Club Trains' which used to run between Manchester and Blackpool many years ago, perhaps that's where they pinched the idea from.

Topping and tailing saves running round and perhaps they don't even employ shunters anymore but isn't it a rather extravagant way of working?
 

yorksrob

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Sounds like a throwback to the famous 'Club Trains' which used to run between Manchester and Blackpool many years ago, perhaps that's where they pinched the idea from.

Topping and tailing saves running round and perhaps they don't even employ shunters anymore but isn't it a rather extravagant way of working?

I suppose you could just imagine them as power cars at each end !
 

BantamMenace

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The worst weekend last year was when the rugby league world cup final fell in manchester on a saturday when the xmas markets were on. Standing only on everything southbound out of Lancaster, if you wanted to change at Preston, forget it.

Utter chaos.
 

thenorthern

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Didn't Arriva Trains Northern and First North Western for a while operate loco hauled trains?

Bringing them back would be a great idea and not just from an enthusiasts point of view.
 

sprinterguy

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Sounds like a throwback to the famous 'Club Trains' which used to run between Manchester and Blackpool many years ago, perhaps that's where they pinched the idea from.
There is a far more recent precedent, however: First North Western hired in top and tail class 31s with mark 2 sets to work a Blackpool to Manchester to Chester diagram round about 2004/2005.

Topping and tailing saves running round and perhaps they don't even employ shunters anymore but isn't it a rather extravagant way of working?
It seems to be the accepted way of operating loco-hauled passenger trains these days, for the additional flexibility that it offers: Arriva Trains Northern, First North Western, Wessex Trains, First Great Western and Scotrail have all adopted this practice as their method of working at various points in the past decade. It's even an accepted practice for a number of railtour operators now, such as West Coast and DRS, where it would not have been in the past.

Arriva Trains Northern through wired their mark 2 carriages for blue star multiple working with class 37s to allow the loco on the rear to provide power instead of being constantly at idle.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Didn't Arriva Trains Northern and First North Western for a while operate loco hauled trains?
Yep: First North Western with Fragonset class 31s and mark 2s between Blackpool, Manchester and Chester as mentioned above, and Arriva Trains Northern with class 37s on the Settle and Carlisle, both in around 2004.
 

Class 170101

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Will they need them though. With all the draconion ticket restrictions they have implmented?
 

thenorthern

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Will they need them though. With all the draconion ticket restrictions they have implmented?

Doubt the ticket changes will change the number of passengers using the train. Fuel prices have gone up for years and people still drive, if people need to get to work they will pay the increase in fares over being unemployed.
 

WatcherZero

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Or stick around till a little later and enjoy a few more drinks.....

Actually thinking about it the first post evening peak trains are going to be rammed, Manchester Piccadilly is going to look like Euston.
 
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