Northern in Glasgow

[gnolife]

I was browsing through Northerns new timetables and i found a service that i thought seemed a bit odd.
It is in the Newcastle-Carlisle timetable (no.04), and is a 17:16 Northern Departure from Newcastle to Glasgow Central, calling MetroCentre, Wylam, Prudhoe, Hexham, Haydon Bridge, Bardon Mill, Haltwhistle, Brampton, Wetheral, Carlisle (18:54 arr, 19:18 dept), Gretna Green, Annan, Dumfries, Sanguhar, Kirconnel, New Cumnock, Auchinleck, Kilmarnock, Stewarton, Barrhead and Glasgow Central (21:36 Arr)

This is a duration of 4hr 20 mins. Im wondering what purpose this service serves, as there is a scheduled 17:37 XC that goes via Edinburgh, arriving in glasgow at 20:11, a 2 hr 34 min journey.

What class of train would be used for this service, as far as i know, the Newcastle area is Pacerland for Northern, and noone would particularly go for being on a pacer for over 4 hours...

 

[Jordy]

Technically its a Scotrail service after Carlisle, they run with Scotrail 156s

 

[Liam]

Technically its a Scotrail service after Carlisle, they run with Scotrail 156s

IIRC, they are usually crewed by Northern staff from Newcastle to Carlisle and Scotrail staff from Carlisle.

 

[Ivo]

What Jordy and Liam said. According to Wikipedia though, it gives SR a presence on the Tyne Valley; whether this is official or not I'm not sure.

noone would particularly go for being on a pacer for over 4 hours...

You'd be surprised!

 

[gnolife]

im kinda failing to understand why ScotRail would care about having a presence in Tyne Valley, i would have thought that they would want their stock to be used on actual Scottish services?

 

[ChrisCooper]

Perhaps what should have been said is no-one normal would want to be on a Pacer for 4 hours!

 

[premier01]

im kinda failing to understand why ScotRail would care about having a presence in Tyne Valley, i would have thought that they would want their stock to be used on actual Scottish services?

I agree-have to use this service from time to time and although better than the Northern trains on the same route it really is a drag across there-travelling to Preston however it just seems easier-and sometimes quicker-than travelling via York and Manchester.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

These services have been running for some years now. But it has never even crossed my mind that anyone would use them for an end-to-end journey!
Its a local stopping service, doing what local stoppers do : they link remote communites.

But it would only be fair to add that folks living on or near the national borders often have good practical reasons for travelling across the border, and this service provides an excellent means of doing so.
Just compare that with the corresponding 'brick wall' on the east coast, where ScotRail won't go as far as Berwick from the north, and Northern wont go that far from the south. That doesn't just inconvenience people living in or visiting Berwick, it makes local cross-border travel impossible by rail!

 

[MacCookie]

im kinda failing to understand why ScotRail would care about having a presence in Tyne Valley, i would have thought that they would want their stock to be used on actual Scottish services?

It's a hangover from before privatisation when BR ran through services from Glasgow or Stranraer to Newcastle via Dumfries.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Technically its a Scotrail service after Carlisle, they run with Scotrail 156s

Technically it's a ScotRail service through out. It's part of the ScotRail franchise agreement. It's crewed by Northern Trains staff between Newcastle and Carlisle, as are some Carlisle to Dumfries services.

Ewan

 

[Liam]

im kinda failing to understand why ScotRail would care about having a presence in Tyne Valley, i would have thought that they would want their stock to be used on actual Scottish services?

I think it possibly makes more sense as a Newcastle-Stranraer, for ferry to Belfast, however Newcastle-Stranraer hasn't run for a couple of years, although there is a 10 minute connection at Kilmarnock. Sometimes this journey is quicker via Edinburgh.

 

[43167]

Its a joint service, NR Newcastle to Carlisle, Scotrail Carlisle-Glasgow one of three through the day I think, service is operated by by a Scotrail 156.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Its a joint service, NR Newcastle to Carlisle, Scotrail Carlisle-Glasgow one of three through the day I think, service is operated by by a Scotrail 156.

....and here was I beginning to think that Northern were using this to test the waters for a pre-emptive strike on a new franchaise in Scotland

I fully expected the comments about Pacers to appear once the name "Northern" featured in this thread.

That would give the Scottish Assembly something to think about. Pacers in vast quantities in Scotland....sounds like something William Wallace would have used as a rallying point for the Clans

 

[flymo]

.... But it has never even crossed my mind that anyone would use them for an end-to-end journey!....

* Puts hand up.

Did it a couple of times on a Newcastle - Glasgow outing. Outward from Newcastle was via Edinburgh to Glasgow QS, return was from Glasgow Central on the direct service via Kilmarnock, Dumfries and the Tyne Valley. I though it was a fantastic run on the Scotrail 156. It was only about 4 hours direct, compared with around 3 via Edinburgh. Why did I do it? because it was there.

Way back when, there were also services Girvan - Newcastle, Stranraer - Newcastle and the aforementioned Glasgow - Newcastle. The other way was 1 to Glasgow C and 2 from Newcastle - Stranraer.

Happy days...

 

[cuccir]

Have used this service on the Tyne Valley section and there's always various people with Scottish accents on it! I suspect the Dumfries and Galloway to Newcastle flow is enough to justify these trains.

Once saw a guard on this service trying to convince some sceptical tourists travelling Newcastle to Glasgow that they were better changing in Carlisle. It ended with him drawing a diagram to explain the current was slower!

 

[me123]

Once saw a guard on this service trying to convince some sceptical tourists travelling Newcastle to Glasgow that they were better changing in Carlisle. It ended with him drawing a diagram to explain the current was slower!

Of course, you can often save money by buying a ticket from Newcastle-Carlisle, and another from Carlisle-Glasgow ROUTE: Dumfries. That said, there's only one service a day where such a day trip is feasible.

There definitely used to be services that went directly from Stranraer-Newcastle via Kilmarnock and Carlisle (presumably to connect with the boats), but they don't seem to run any more.

 

[MacCookie]

Its a joint service, NR Newcastle to Carlisle, Scotrail Carlisle-Glasgow one of three through the day I think, service is operated by by a Scotrail 156.

You may be interested in what the franchise agreement says on the matter:

Three services between Newcastle and Carlisle, on Mondays to Fridays and Saturdays, are operated by the Train Operator in respect of ScotRail. These services are not included in this Service Level Commitment unless indicated, but are specified in the ScotRail service level commitment.

 

[tbtc]

I suspect the Dumfries and Galloway to Newcastle flow is enough to justify these trains

I think that's what it comes down to. It's really just a tag-on between two services that happens to provide a link from Dumfries to Newcastle that enough people to use to justify (bear in mind that from Dumfries a shopping trip to Newcastle/ Metro Centre is going to be competative with a shopping trip to Glasgow)

 

[Jonny]

That's my understanding - as someone who has used them on the England side they're slightly better - and with quicker schedules. Mind you, if I was on a standard class any-operator ticket between Newcastle and Glasgow without a reservation and I expected the via Edinburgh services to be rammed, and I wasn't in a rush, it would make a nice "plan B".

 

[43106]

I dunno if it's relevant, but I went on a 156 doing a Glasgow Central - Carlisle - Newcastle in late January 1994 from Glasgow to Kilmarnock. I reckon that it's a service that's been on the go for a few years before then.
Oddly enough, when I saw the thread title (Northern in Glasgow), I thought it was about the short-lived daily Glasgow - Lockerbie - Carlisle - Settle - Leeds service.