Northern Hub & Sheffield

[Haydn1971]

I start a new role next month in Manchester, travelling from both Meadowhall & Dore to Piccadilly and Oxford Road depending on the time of travel. Having scanned over various documents for Northern Hub, in terms of my route specifically, I'm seeing four tracking for Picadilly to Deansgate, refurbishment of Oxford Road and two extra platforms at Piccadilly. Again, in terms of my Sheffield-Manchester journeys, what should I expect to experience over the next few years, when will things be done and specifically, are Sheffield-Manchester trains looking like being routed via Victoria or have I misread that bit ?

Cheers in advance.

 

[snowball]

You started a thread with a related title a year ago:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=96444

Continuous 4-tracking from Picc to Deansgate is not proposed, as there are significant buildings close to the viaduct alternating between north and south sides. There will be 2 extra through platforms at Picc, and the 4 existing ones at Oxford Road will be lengthened and straightened, at the expense of losing the existing bay platform.

NR's application for an order to authorise this work only went in in December. The outcome of the earlier application for the Ordsall Chord is still awaited.

 

[Haydn1971]

Oh, sorry, I've had about 400 sleeps since then :-/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm surprised you say that 4 tracking isn't part of the scheme, I've seen plans that indicate it is

 

[snowball]

I'm surprised you say that 4 tracking isn't part of the scheme, I've seen plans that indicate it is

It was talked about at an earlier stage, but I don't think it's been in the plans for several years now. Maybe if Joseph Locke happens along he'll be able to give chapter and verse. The need to deny it's in the plans seems to crop up fairly often.

The theory is that with virtually all trains stopping at both Picc and OR, they'll alternate between the two westbound platforms at each station, and similarly eastbound, in much the same way that the M6 Toll is much wider at at the toll plazas than elsewhere. Presumably relatively few will be able to stop at Densgate.

 

[Haydn1971]

Ultimately, are more trains per hour between Sheffield and Manchester likely ?

 

[Viscount702]

Ultimately, are more trains per hour between Sheffield and Manchester likely ?

It would seem not.

 

[andyb2706]

No definitely only two lines between Piccadilly and Oxford Road although platform 15 and 16 at Piccadilly will be built.

I've included a link to Network Rail webpage that has an animation run through of what the layout is going to be like.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/northern-hub/projects/manchester-oxford-road-piccadilly/

 

[Joseph_Locke]

It was talked about at an earlier stage, but I don't think it's been in the plans for several years now. Maybe if Joseph Locke happens along he'll be able to give chapter and verse. The need to deny it's in the plans seems to crop up fairly often.

The theory is that with virtually all trains stopping at both Picc and OR, they'll alternate between the two westbound platforms at each station, and similarly eastbound, in much the same way that the M6 Toll is much wider at at the toll plazas than elsewhere. Presumably relatively few will be able to stop at Densgate.

There are no current plans to four track Piccadilly to Castlefield Junction throughout; that said, once 15/16 are in and Oxford Road is extended there will be little two track left.

 

[Haydn1971]

Thanks all... Hopefully cascaded 185's into 6 car units may be the future for Sheffield-Manchester once the wires go up on TransPennine North

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ultimately, are more trains per hour between Sheffield and Manchester likely ?

The problems are not restricted to the Manchester end.
Signalling in the Hope Valley is very limited and I don't think it can cope with more services at the moment.
You probably know that Dore Junction will be doubled under Northern Hub, with a second platform.
That will be tied in with improvements on the MML linked to electrification to Sheffield.
There will also probably be new loops in the Hope Valley so trains can overtake.
Routing some trains via Romiley has been mooted (missing out the Stockport bottleneck).
Routing into Victoria from Ashburys might be possible but doesn't generate much enthusiasm.
Looks like it will be a long, slow process to upgrade the whole route.
The DfT seems to have gone back into its shell on service development on this line, pending planning approval for Northern Hub in Manchester.
Then there's HS3...

 

[deltic08]

A little off thread, but still regarding Sheffield. I have not seen a post from tbtc for weeks now. He is a bit controversial but I have missed him. Does anybody know?

 

[Haydn1971]

The problems are not restricted to the Manchester end.

Signalling in the Hope Valley is very limited and I don't think it can cope with more services at the moment.

This baffles me, sure there's some freight, but is there really that much that three passengers services per hour max a line out ? My experience of travelling this line is that rapid progress is made through the Hope Valley, then services come crashing into slow motion and halting at signals between Hazel Grove and Stockport - so roll on routing via Romley for me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm 44 in July, I'm pretty confident that I'll be retired before HS3 becomes operational.

 

[northwichcat]

Ultimately, are more trains per hour between Sheffield and Manchester likely ?

In the next 5 years or so the answer is no. An option for a new Chester-Manchester-Sheffield service was looked at but it was decided increasing the frequency on local services was higher priority than another fast Manchester-Sheffield service.

Personally, I think once the additional services to New Mills Newton start the services starting/terminating at Hazel Grove should be eliminated with a Manchester-Sheffield service operating in it's place with calls at Stockport and Hazel Grove.

Thanks all... Hopefully cascaded 185's into 6 car units may be the future for Sheffield-Manchester once the wires go up on TransPennine North

DfT did seem keen on the idea on using 6 car 185s between Manchester and Nottingham and 4 car 158s between Nottingham and Norwich but a lot of people objected to splitting Liverpool-Norwich.

 

[Haydn1971]

Looking forward to the crowding now haha

I'll have to ensure I'm on the early services there and get the EMT train home from Oxford Road where I can get a seat when everyone gets off at Piccadilly !