Northern guard interview

[herdster]

Hi,

I've got an interview tomorrow with Northern for a guards position . I've researched as much as i can about the company however I'm having difficulty finding out exactly what rolling stock runs from L'pool Lime st as there isn't much on the website and Wi kepedia seems out of date ( although i wouldn't trust that anyway) . I think they run 142 , 150 and 156's but could someone confirm this for me together with routes.
One other thing , I passed the private driver assessment at Doncaster last week and I'm not sure whether to tell them or not just yet, it may seem as if I'm only interested in a drivers position ASAP and might not go down well , any views.
Many thanks

Herdster

 

[HSTfan!!!]

in my experience I'd keep quiet about the driver side of things, a colleague of mine mentioned wanting to be a driver at a guards interview and it was the only thing they used as grounds not to give him the job. If they ask you where you see yourself in 10years time sort of thing i'd say conductor manager/trainer etc.

 

[Bellwater]

What HSTfan said - i'd say settled in this job at Lime Street, maybe as a Conductor Instructor.

Traction is 142/150/156 and routes:

Liverpool - Manchester Picc CLC
Manchester Picc - Manchester Airport
Liverpool - Manchester Victoria
Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge - Huddersfield
Liverpool - Warrington Bank Quay
Liverpool - Wigan - Blackpool North
Preston - Morecambe(no longer used but retained on card)

Anyone feel free to correct the above.

And good luck!

 

[navydavy1968]

Good luck today mate!

 

[herdster]

Thanks for that chaps I'll let you know how i get on

 

[Flyboy]

in my experience I'd keep quiet about the driver side of things, a colleague of mine mentioned wanting to be a driver at a guards interview and it was the only thing they used as grounds not to give him the job.

Your insight is appreciated HSTfan, but it therefore seems extremely hypocritical of rail operators to encourage would-be drivers to join in just such a role and then transfer internally thereafter, which is exactly what I've experienced.

Our friend Herdster might ONLY be interested in ultimately becoming a driver (apologies if you're not) and might possess the perfect skills and aptitude for that role, but he therefore has be slightly deceptive at the interview in order to get his foot in the door as a guard. That's obviously not right, but it would appear that operators have brought the situation upon themselves through their recruitment policies.

When was the last time Northern recruited a trainee driver? and from what source - internal or external?

Slight rant over, sorry.

 

[driver9000]

When was the last time Northern recruited a trainee driver? and from what source - internal or external?

Not sure if any courses are running at the moment, last trainee drivers I know of were taken on about 6 months or so ago and were external recruits.

 

[Albert]

Northern are recruiting for a guard in Carlisle and I find myself in the same position as Herdster e.g. I would like to become a driver. I don't know whether to apply or wait until a trainee driver role comes up. I would have to fib and use a friends address because of 30 min from the depot rule Northern Rail have.

I am concerned though that if I became a guard, how long it would be before a trainee driver role came up, as I could just about manage on the £20k(ish) salary for a year training as a driver, but could not manage on the £20k guard salary for a great length of time and then still have to do the trainee year. I currently earn £27k and my wife £6k and there is no spare money. I have a bit packed away to subsidise the trainee driver salary.

If I were to become a guard in Carlisle, how then would I be able to apply for a trainee driver position with Northern in say Manchester (where I could use my mother's address) when my then employer would know my address is Carlisle, or is the 30 min from the depot rule waived for existing employees.

I have only a few companies in mind to look for work as I do not want to move too far South, about as far South as NR cover. I have looked at Arriva Wales, First, DRS (ideal), Northern, Virgin, Arriva Cross, Mersey.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[herdster]

I am pleased to say i passed the interview and have been invited for conductor assessment. I've done some research but there doesn't seem to be as much info on this as there is for the driver's assessment. Could someone who has done it kindly give me the lowdown on what's involved .

Herdster

 

[Bellwater]

Great news

 

[313103]

Please see my comments in the other Conductors thread 'mostly the part about Most Conductors don't want to be Conductors'.

The process is wrong. If you want to become a driver apply for a drivers job, what is the point of recruiting Conductors who don't really want to do the job, and look for every excuse to whinge about it, always comparing their salary to that of a driver, moan about how long it takes to become a driver, always saying the union ain't done nothing for me, whingeing that drivers are better off, i hear it all the time from fellow Conductors, yet when i tell them to leave if they are not that happy i am then accused of doing the Managements job.

As a union recruiter i find it sometimes to be a waste of time, normally the first question i get asked is 'Can RMT represent me if i become a driver?' Wait a minute you haven't even finished your Conductors school and yet your already asking about Drivers!.

It is because of peoples changing attitudes, the companies insistence of playing hard ball that the role of a Conductor is now regarded as a none essential grade. Most people are very disingenuous when it comes to the Conductor, and that is why the companies want rid of the grade.

 

[herdster]

I understand your point HST but the truth is I haven't been working for the last month since my business closed so i need a job and it may as well be in the railway industry so as to get some experience . Also i think Northern promote from within so as long as you show the willing and aptitude then it's possible to get a drivers job.

 

[Flyboy]

The process is wrong. If you want to become a driver apply for a drivers job, what is the point of recruiting Conductors who don't really want to do the job...

You are entirely correct, and to be honest the "process" really frustrates the hell out of me, but one must remember that it is not 'wannabe' drivers that dictate the recruitment process, it's the Companies themselves, and you should therefore direct your very valid point to your HR department.

I've absolutely no idea why recruitment is done this way, is it Union pressure or something else? however, the fact remains that as long as internal recruitment prevails, you're going to get staff who don't actually want to do the job they're doing and/or their skillset isn't matched to the job their doing, but it's their only way of reaching their goal. Herdster is a typical example of this, but don't blame him, he doesn't write the rules.

To illustrate the point, here is an extract from an email I received from a TOC HR Department :

"Our usual practice is to employ staff at Customer Service Assistant or Senior Conductor grade and then, vacancies permitting along with the relevant psychometric testing and assessments, they can work up to trainee driver status."

Obviously I hid my true emotions in the reply I sent to them.

The process is indeed wrong 313103!

 

[herdster]

Indeed flyboy . I agree with everything that has been said but just to reiterate I am not going to stay unemployed just on the off chance of getting a trainee drivers position which i may not even succeed at getting. Just out of interest which TOC was it you got that reply from.

 

[Flyboy]

That's a valid point herdster.

In regard to the TOC, I deliberately didn't say which one it was as it might be a tad unfair, but it has to be said that they're not the only ones that have given such advice.

 

[herdster]

I thought you didn't mention the TOC deliberately. You could pm me but if you'd rather not i understand.

 

[royaloak]

Since when has life been "FAIR"?

What is wrong with a company wanted to take you on to see what type of person (and worker) you are before offering you a drivers job?

I think it is perfectly "fair" for them to do this whether officially allowed or not!

 

[313103]

Isn't it amazing how times have changed. A senior Conductor was regarded as one of the best grades to be in and you got respect as well. Now days it is regarded as being lower then a Trainee Drivers position. Absolutely amazing!

I am not having a go at anyone in particular. The way i look at it is if your wanting out the minute you join your not going to be interested in helping those that want to stay as, or those that are the reps for these grades. The attitude always is i don't care what a Guard does because in 6 months time i will be a driver so why should i care about what Guards do?
Can you understand what i mean by this statement?

 

[CarterUSM]

I understand what you mean. Jobs are here for people today thanks to the efforts of previous employees and unions to a certain extent. I feel a lot of nose turning at my grade now.

 

[royaloak]

Not from he chief, easiest way to upset a driver is for the guard to walk into the messroom and ask who my chauffeur was , got a wonderful response especially as i had only been a guard 2 months.

 

[CarterUSM]

That is pretty funny though! I might use that myself. There's nowt wrong with a bit of banter.

 

[Legzr1]

Noobie here (but 20+ years on the rail) and one of the funiest retorts i've heard was from a guard some years ago who failed driver tests - rather bitterly he told a group of drivers in the messroom he been overlooked for a drivers job because he had a father !!!

 

[Albert]

How long did the process take from the closing date until you found out you had an assessment Herdster? Was there a telephone interview first?

 

[herdster]

Hi Albert ,

The closing date was 18th Feb and i got an email 3rd March asking me to attend an interview on 8th March. No telephone interview . I now have assessments tomorrow . All pretty quick and efficient really unlike some other TOC's I've seen mentioned on this forum.

Herdster

 

[anonymous0101]

Isn't it amazing how times have changed. A senior Conductor was regarded as one of the best grades to be in and you got respect as well. Now days it is regarded as being lower then a Trainee Drivers position. Absolutely amazing!

I am not having a go at anyone in particular. The way i look at it is if your wanting out the minute you join your not going to be interested in helping those that want to stay as, or those that are the reps for these grades. The attitude always is i don't care what a Guard does because in 6 months time i will be a driver so why should i care about what Guards do?
Can you understand what i mean by this statement?

Hiya mate. Left you a pm.

 

[Flyboy]

What is wrong with a company wanted to take you on to see what type of person (and worker) you are before offering you a drivers job?

I totally disagree with your statement there royaloak, you make it sound like drivers are somehow superior and one should have to work one's way UP to becoming a driver. The crux of the issue is that drivers, guards, and any other employee for that matter, require different skills and personalities. The skillset of a driver is not superior to that of anyone else in the team, just different.

313103 - If guards are regarded as being lower than trainee drivers then that's wrong, as a pilot I certainly don't look down my nose at cabin crew, or indeed baggage handlers, we are all equal and each have an important role to play in keeping the show on the road. I'm a pilot because I have the aptitude to do that particular job, whereas I wouldn't have a clue how to be good at being a cabin crew member.

 

[Albert]

Thanks Herdster, closing date for Carlisle is 26th march, so hopefully get email by 6th April or so. good luck with it all mate.

 

[new driver]

Speaking from experieence guys Northern rarely promote from within. Again it comes down to the economics of the situation. Being that they would have to employ two people as apposed to one and the cost of training would go up for the toc. I used to work for northern and was promised interviews only to get the jobs pulled before an interview. Then I hear they took people from the street instead. Quite a few others at my depot were in same boat even after they had passed all assesments. The truth is the normal way of becoming a driver is to apply to every toc you can and be prepared to move. I now have a contract with LOROL as a trainee driver but obviously after working for northern this involves a very hefty move. BUT personally I think its worth it.

 

[Flyboy]

The truth is the normal way of becoming a driver is to apply to every toc you can and be prepared to move.

In Northern's case your application will be thrown out if you don't live within 30 minutes of the depot "at the time of applying."

 

[new driver]

Maybe so but LOROL have took me on even though they know I have a substantial move involved. They were using the same rules apparently I can only assume I slipped through.