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Northern Gives Fare Dodgers The Red Card

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Bletchleyite

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A side effect of the ones who don't bother to check tickets is... you have to go hammering on the door of the "back cab" to request a request stop.

Even if they can't be bothered doing tickets, passing through the train on request stop routes asking who wants where is a key part of the job and guards not doing this should be disciplined.

Though I don't get why we don't fit bus-style stop buttons to units working these routes. That's common in other countries.
 
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Runningaround

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It would be fascinating to see a selection of sample cases from start to finish including the initial interaction "at the station" (or on train).

You mention poor communication skills and poor understanding of the rules. These problems bedevil any industry which call upon labour at the lower cost end of the market. I am not sure I would call them cheap anymore. Given staff turnover in some of these occupations training them to a higher level seems an almost impossible / unviable task. Likewise you mention "rentathug". Personally I would not tolerate any overly aggressive or inappropriate behaviour towards customers (nor do I condone it) but increasingly watching how people behave (at the gp surgery, in supermarkets and on the roads of Great Britain) and from fly on the wall documentaries I can see how those engaged in this work adopt a robust / cynical approach given how they themselves are treated.
You cannot go by what you see on TV programs following staff around, they only show the positive side from the industries perspective, you never see the RPI, Security Guards or Police getting anything wrong or being challenged or cases the passenger won being mentioned at the end when they do a run down of the outcomes. Some are like a PR exercise for the firms, even the BBC are at it with the ''Claimed and Shamed'' program showing how hard done by Insurance companies are we don't see any claims incorrectly declined or ones refused on a minor error on the form, they must have thousands of examples from travel insurance firms rejecting claims from covid, but having to cough up.
 

Runningaround

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The fact that people here (and I mean this with the upmost respect) do not know that all Northern trains have a guard says a lot about how little revenue work is done by them and how often they show themselves in the carriage.
I’ve done fairly long trips on Northern quite recently, sat quite near the back and not seen the guard short of station stops. Indeed even journeys that were essentially guaranteed a check have gone without of late.
Not seen one since 2022 and end of restrictions, then again I've not seen a Transpennine train after 5:30pm on a Saturday. I'm sure the railway up North is still in partial lockdown
 

Titfield

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You cannot go by what you see on TV programs following staff around, they only show the positive side from the industries perspective, you never see the RPI, Security Guards or Police getting anything wrong or being challenged or cases the passenger won being mentioned at the end when they do a run down of the outcomes. Some are like a PR exercise for the firms, even the BBC are at it with the ''Claimed and Shamed'' program showing how hard done by Insurance companies are we don't see any claims incorrectly declined or ones refused on a minor error on the form, they must have thousands of examples from travel insurance firms rejecting claims from covid, but having to cough up.

My original post stated that the article "could be seen as a party political broadcast on behalf of the "Carlisle Party" and thus ignores / air brushes any of their failings.". Likewise I view fly on wall programmes in the same way. However what the programmes do show, irrespective of the rights or wrongs of either party, that there is an increasing amount of aggression being demonstrated in these matters.
 

plugwash

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Frankly, the biggest problem in my eyes, is what they get paid.
My understanding is the reason these companies are used, is to do an end run around unions and/or employment law and hence employ staff under far worse pay/terms than they would get if employed directly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Every Northern train has a guard.
They do but.

1. Some guards apparently don't bother with ticket checks.
2. Many northern trains are run as double units and many of their units lack corridor joins on the ends. My understanding is that in such cases Northern's health and safety policy insists on the guard remaining in the rear unit so there is a staff member in each unit.

Having said that, on the line I commute on I would say I get ticket checked more often than not.
 

Runningaround

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My original post stated that the article "could be seen as a party political broadcast on behalf of the "Carlisle Party" and thus ignores / air brushes any of their failings.". Likewise I view fly on wall programmes in the same way. However what the programmes do show, irrespective of the rights or wrongs of either party, that there is an increasing amount of aggression being demonstrated in these matters.
They highlight the most interesting parts of hours, weeks or months of filming into a one to half hour program yet emit the footage that shows the railway in a negative light, which considering the performances over the last two years it must be difficult for producers to find enough to warrant a series.
They don't show the thousands of hours where passengers all passed through with a valid ticket without any fuss, or when staff incorrectly rejected a valid ticket.
 

Titfield

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They highlight the most interesting parts of hours, weeks or months of filming into a one to half hour program yet emit the footage that shows the railway in a negative light, which considering the performances over the last two years it must be difficult for producers to find enough to warrant a series.
They don't show the thousands of hours where passengers all passed through with a valid ticket without any fuss, or when staff incorrectly rejected a valid ticket.

Absolutely. Given the explosive growth of TV channels over the past 20 years tv companies are struggling to find enough material to fill the air time and are having to resort to repeating programmes (on an industrial scale) imports sometimes of little interest / differentiation (is it NZ highway patrol for example) and programmes such as the one about fare dodging on TfL. No TV production company is going to show their material provider in a bad light for two main reasons (1) the material provider will have some form of editorial control or veto (2) you dont bite the hand that feeds you as next time it will be a sorry no thanks.
In a similar vein have a look at the TV series Airline? which featured easyJet. Virtually every scene showed easyJet in a good light or at least not in a negative light. Passengers turning up late and refused check in / boarding- those are the rules, too much luggage - those are the rules, delays and cancelled flights - showed easyJet doing their best in trying circumstances (and nearly always showing delays due to factors beyond their control e.g. weather, ATC issues but NOT crew shortages). These so called documentaries are very biased but from easyJets point of view very much worthwhile from the publicity point of view and getting across messages: dont turn up late, make sure you know the ts and cs of flying, we do our best when times are tough.
 

philthetube

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I know this is off topic, but I will never forget the Easyjet episode where a guy had turned up for a morning flight to Liverpool to attend a meeting, this flight was cancelled and the desk was happy to refund his fare but refused to refund the lunchtime flight back as that was running, even though it was impossible for him to make that flight, even with a fast turnround.

One or two scenes did not show them in a good light.
 

Titfield

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I know this is off topic, but I will never forget the Easyjet episode where a guy had turned up for a morning flight to Liverpool to attend a meeting, this flight was cancelled and the desk was happy to refund his fare but refused to refund the lunchtime flight back as that was running, even though it was impossible for him to make that flight, even with a fast turnround.

One or two scenes did not show them in a good light.

Well there was bound to be a few scenes that did not show them in a good light - perhaps those with control thought they had to show the odd "wart" - but generally speaking each 30 minute episode showed a strong positive message for easyJet.
 

spag23

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How about the Airline episode where the Easyjet captain told his newly qualified co-pilot to make his first passenger announcement; that they were currently over the Bay of Biscay.
"What is the Bay of Biscay?" asked the perplexed co-pilot.
<GULP>
 

Titfield

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How about the Airline episode where the Easyjet captain told his newly qualified co-pilot to make his first passenger announcement; that they were currently over the Bay of Biscay.
"What is the Bay of Biscay?" asked the perplexed co-pilot.
<GULP>

Yes - you do not need to know geography to fly an aircraft. Aircraft navigation it is all about putting the co-ordinates and flight plan into the nav system and it does the rest.
 

ricoblade

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Full on Northern revenue block on Platform 4 (from Sheffield) at Retford this morning. First one I’ve seen anywhere on this station in 20 years.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Full on Northern revenue block on Platform 4 (from Sheffield) at Retford this morning. First one I’ve seen anywhere on this station in 20 years.

And Penalty Fare Officers on the return journey from Sheffield, plenty of “customers” who are used to buying from the conductor. Looks like Northern are really stepping it up.
 
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