Northern 'Flexi-season tickets'

[peters]

Yes, it is bad. You are charging more to those who can't commit money upfront - just like pre-pay electric meters charge people more when they recharge them via paypoint.

Many big employers offer interest free loans for annual season tickets, so you get the benefit of an annual season ticket spread across 12 months, rather than having to pay for it all in one go. Unfortunately, unlike the cycle to work scheme the government doesn't allow payments to be deducted from the pre-tax income.

Even if your employer doesn't offer that you can buy a monthly season ticket on a credit card and pay it off when you get paid, unless your credit rating is very bad or your credit card is already maxed out.

Why would you want to charge people who don't use your service a lot more? Sky for example offer discounts to new customers, then increase the prices until they threaten to leave, then give them a massive discount.

Sky is a different scenario as it's a luxury you can remove from your budget if it costs too much.

Why should a train company give a discounted fare to those who want to occasionally use the service at the busiest time of the day? Train operators don't want people travelling at peak times unless they are regular commuters, they try to encourage the irregular travellers to travel on quieter trains.

Just charge £3.50 return instead, save the expense of all this carnet enforcement and training, and attract even more people to the railway.

Offering a cheap return instead of season tickets would mean someone who usually buys around 11 monthly season tickets a year will instead buy around 230 return tickets. How much would it cost to install 19 additional ticket machines at a station which currently only has 1 to cope with the extra demand? As @Haywain says it costs more to take lots of little payments.

And @miami why do you want a £3.50 return and not a £1.75 single?

 

[miami]

And @miami why do you want a £3.50 return and not a £1.75 single?

I'd want £1.75 singles, and there's no reason not to have payg on a contactless system as in London for that journey.

Train operators don't want people travelling at peak times unless they are regular commuters

Except they do - because that's where they get the most revenue, and revenue is what pays the bills

 

[peters]

In line with the Great British Railways announcement the new flexi ticket from 28 June nationwide will be an 8 in 28 days ticket

Flexi Season tickets

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

The Northern prices for the old 10 day tickets in 6 months have disappeared from brfares.com on lines which weren't included in the trial and there's no new replacement fares yet.*

Sounds like they'll be 2 types, presumably Northern aren't going to roll out the touch in and out points network wide in the next 6 weeks

Smartcard customers must tap-in and tap-out at the ticket barrier or a platform validator at either end of your journey to activate your Flexi Season ticket. Customers with the Barcode Flexi Season ticket must activate the ticket before each journey using a new National Rail Smartcard Manager app - more information to follow.

* As an aside I noticed in brfares there are some Northern Advance Sale fares appearing, so possibly some cheap advance tickets being released soon?

 

[miami]

How much where the 10 in 6 months?

Any ideas how much discount there will be for an 8-in-28 ticket compared with 1-in-1 tickets?

I suspect booking advances on many lines will continue to be cheaper for those who are planning ahead, but rail fares are always about perception, not about actual cost. The perception is that it costs a fortune to go from Manchester to London for a 10am and returning at 4pm. Reality is it's £45 return if you care. Lets hope that doesn't go, the RDG have wanted to get rid of things like break of journey, split tickets, etc for years, this is a great opportunity for them.

 

[peters]

How much where the 10 in 6 months?

The examples I saw were more expensive than 2 x Weekly Seasons, 10 x Off Peak Day Returns or 9 x Anytime Day Returns but cheaper than 10 x Anytime Day Returns. I expect it'll be a similar level of discount with the new tickets, they'll offer a discount over buying an Anytime Day Return each time but will cost per journey than using a weekly season for 5 return journeys.

 

[skyhigh]

* As an aside I noticed in brfares there are some Northern Advance Sale fares appearing, so possibly some cheap advance tickets being released soon?

I don't think they ever went away since the last 10p sale.

 

[peters]

I don't think they ever went away since the last 10p sale.

No they are new ones. Northwich wasn't included in the previous 10p sale and in the last couple of weeks "Northern Advance Sale" fares for Northwich to Chester have appeared with prices listed being 50p, £1 and £1.50 (no 10p ones!)

 

[skyhigh]

No they are new ones. Northwich wasn't included in the previous 10p sale and in the last couple of weeks "Northern Advance Sale" fares for Northwich to Chester have appeared with prices listed being 50p, £1 and £1.50 (no 10p ones!)

That's interesting then - recently I've only seen the 10p ones when looking, so that must be a new addition. I did suspect once social distancing is relaxed another sale might happen...

 

[island]

In line with the Great British Railways announcement the new flexi ticket from 28 June nationwide will be an 8 in 28 days ticket

Flexi Season tickets

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

The Northern prices for the old 10 day tickets in 6 months have disappeared from brfares.com on lines which weren't included in the trial and there's no new replacement fares yet.*

Sounds like they'll be 2 types, presumably Northern aren't going to roll out the touch in and out points network wide in the next 6 weeks



* As an aside I noticed in brfares there are some Northern Advance Sale fares appearing, so possibly some cheap advance tickets being released soon?

Here we go again with the “app to activate a ticket” malarkey. I thought they learned their lesson on that with m-tickets. How long before we see this show up in Disputes & Prosecutions?

 

[peters]

Here we go again with the “app to activate a ticket” malarkey. I thought they learned their lesson on that with m-tickets. How long before we see this show up in Disputes & Prosecutions?

I get the impression the preferred method is going to be you get a smartcard and touch in at the station to activate the ticket but Northern aren't going to have that facility rolled out network wide by the end of next month.

An unanswered question is what happens if you intend to use a station which touch in points but they are out-of-order, will they expect you to use the app instead and start issuing penalty fare notices to those who don't?

 

[Haywain]

Here we go again with the “app to activate a ticket” malarkey. I thought they learned their lesson on that with m-tickets. How long before we see this show up in Disputes & Prosecutions?

I think this uses a different sense of activation, in that it will be activated by using the barcode.

 

[miami]

Activiating with an app seems less error prone than carnets where you write on a ticket. The massive increased risk of getting a criminal record to get a 5% discount seems not worth it to me, but it will be a PR win. Rail fares are all about perception, not reality. The perception is travelling from Manchester to London, arriving at 10am and departing at 5pm, costs a fortune which goes straight into the pockets of Richard Branson. (The reality is you can walk up to the station in the morning and buy a £45 return at a speed comparable to the speed it was under BR when it was £50 each way (£100 after CPI).

 

[peters]

I think this uses a different sense of activation, in that it will be activated by using the barcode.

To me it sounds like if you don't go for the smart card option, then you have to activate in the app and you get a barcode to show once you've activated it, which presumably can be scanned by staff and at barriers.

 

[Wallsendmag]

App , Pval or Gateline for activation of Smartcard tickets

 

[splashoutradio]

Wonder if the smartcard reader on the TVMs could be used to activate smartcards?
The two stations I'd use this product between both have no gateline, but have TVMs.

 

[peters]

Wonder if the smartcard reader on the TVMs could be used to activate smartcards?
The two stations I'd use this product between both have no gateline, but have TVMs.

Perhaps someone who uses the Harrogate line, which was part of the trial, can say what facilities exist there for tapping in?

I think those smartcard readers were on the TVMs before they could be used and they were put into use, for loading or checking what's on a smartcard, after a software upgrade.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Providing the TOC uses the RDG "Central Back Office" for Smartcard fulfilment (which the majority do) it should be possible to "collect" from a TVM near instantaneously (providing they don't use Trainline as the booking engine) just as with a paper ticket.

If memory serves, on Flowbird (formerly Parkeon) TVMs you need to present your Smartcard to the reader without choosing the Smartcard option from the home screen, and that will trigger an update.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Wonder if the smartcard reader on the TVMs could be used to activate smartcards?
The two stations I'd use this product between both have no gateline, but have TVMs.

Already thought of and being investigated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 May 2021 ==

Providing the TOC uses the RDG "Central Back Office" for Smartcard fulfilment (which the majority do) it should be possible to "collect" from a TVM near instantaneously (providing they don't use Trainline as the booking engine) just as with a paper ticket.

If memory serves, on Flowbird (formerly Parkeon) TVMs you need to present your Smartcard to the reader without choosing the Smartcard option from the home screen, and that will trigger an update.

All tested