Northern First Class

[strange6]

Though that might grab your attention. If it was compulsory for all TOC's to offer a first class service, what would Northern do?
Split the 142 in 1/2 by curtain and offer cushions with seats? Maybe a complimentary modified portable radio with ear plugs so that you could turn the sound up to blank out the engine roar. A free mars bar if your journey is longer than 20 minutes in length and a pot noodle if over 1 hour?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It will never happen anyway, so I don't know what the point is. Merseyrail, Chiltern, c2c, ATW (bar WAGS) and EMT (bar MML services) don't offer any either...

 

[bluenoxid]

Though that might grab your attention. If it was compulsory for all TOC's to offer a first class service, what would Northern do?
Split the 142 in 1/2 by curtain and offer cushions with seats? Maybe a complimentary modified portable radio with ear plugs so that you could turn the sound up to blank out the engine roar. A free mars bar if your journey is longer than 20 minutes in length and a pot noodle if over 1 hour?

Errrr no, can't offer a Pot Noodle because it would need an onboard kettle. Negating the obvious health and safety implications, that kind of power taken off the electrics could lead to the Pacer sitting at a stand for at least a minute. It would be a sausage roll picked up at the last station with a Greggs on it. :roll:

 

[Oliver]

Errrr no, can't offer a Pot Noodle because it would need an onboard kettle. Negating the obvious health and safety implications, that kind of power taken off the electrics could lead to the Pacer sitting at a stand for at least a minute. It would be a sausage roll picked up at the last station with a Greggs on it. :roll:

No, it should be much posher than that! This should give the management some ideas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VLYpKGVBUg

 

[WestCoast]

There is more chance of London Midland diverting their entire order of 172s to Northern (yes please!)....

I am still waiting for Northern to challenge Virgin and East Coast and run services to London. It's not as daft as it sounds, First North Western ran Blackpool North - Euston (using 158s), Rochdale/Manchester Victoria - Euston (using 158s) and Manchester Airport - Euston (using 322s?).

North Western Trains/First North Western were the pioneer of Open Access Operations as we know them, along with Hull Trains.

Infact, and some wont know this, but those routes are the whole reason why the 180s were built. They were intended for First North Western. However, Virgin/SRA got involved and the routes were removed. Then the 180s were diverted to First Great Western.

On some of Northern's routes, there is actually already scope for a "TPE-style" First Class, such as York - Leeds - Blackpool North (about 2h50) and Leeds - Settle - Carlisle (around 2h45). There is no catering on these routes, except for a trolley provided by the Settle & Carlisle line partnership on the latter route. First Class would work fine as these services are booked for 158s.

 

[strange6]

It will never happen anyway, so I don't know what the point is. Merseyrail, Chiltern, c2c, ATW (bar WAGS) and EMT (bar MML services) don't offer any either...

Just a bit of light hearted banter my friend!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

On some of Northern's routes, there is actually already scope for a "TPE-style" First Class, such as York - Leeds - Blackpool North (about 2h50) and Leeds - Settle - Carlisle (around 2h45). There is no catering on these routes, except for a trolley provided by the Settle & Carlisle line partnership on the latter route. First Class would work fine as these services are booked for 158s.

Way back in 1995, when I commuted from Liverpool University every night, I remember getting TPE 158 trains from Liverpool to Edinburgh every night and they had very small first class compartments at either end of the unit. There must have been only 4 x 4 seats in each. I never see them these days. Do they still exist are have they been gotten rid of?

 

[yorksrob]

There is more chance of London Midland diverting their entire order of 172s to Northern (yes please!)....

I am still waiting for Northern to challenge Virgin and East Coast and run services to London. It's not as daft as it sounds, First North Western ran Blackpool North - Euston (using 158s), Rochdale/Manchester Victoria - Euston (using 158s) and Manchester Airport - Euston (using 322s?).

North Western Trains/First North Western were the pioneer of Open Access Operations as we know them, along with Hull Trains.

Infact, and some wont know this, but those routes are the whole reason why the 180s were built. They were intended for First North Western. However, Virgin/SRA got involved and the routes were removed. Then the 180s were diverted to First Great Western.

On some of Northern's routes, there is actually already scope for a "TPE-style" First Class, such as York - Leeds - Blackpool North (about 2h50) and Leeds - Settle - Carlisle (around 2h45). There is no catering on these routes, except for a trolley provided by the Settle & Carlisle line partnership on the latter route. First Class would work fine as these services are booked for 158s.

That is interesting !

How long did First North Western's London routes survive and were they well used ?

 

[WestCoast]

Way back in 1995, when I commuted from Liverpool University every night, I remember getting TPE 158 trains from Liverpool to Edinburgh every night and they had very small first class compartments at either end of the unit. There must have been only 4 x 4 seats in each. I never see them these days. Do they still exist are have they been gotten rid of?

I think that Liverpool to Edinburgh would have been BR CrossCountry, possibly with the 158s on loan from Regional Railways (I am not sure about that though).

I think they have been removed a long time ago.

 

[ainsworth74]

If Northern were to introduce first class rather than use Rail Gourmet for the catering (like it seems the entire rest of the industry uses) they should instead use Greggs. Greggs trollies could be loaded and unloaded at various stations throughout the Northern network selling fresh Greggs products to first class passengers before making their way through the rest of the train.

 

[Failed Unit]

I think that Liverpool to Edinburgh would have been BR CrossCountry, possibly with the 158s on loan from Regional Railways (I am not sure about that though).

I think they have been removed a long time ago.

Not as long ago as you think, one was running with Transpennie express upto the 185s entering full service, FGW refurbished it. 158750 I think, it was also the last unit in regional express livery!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh, first class on a 153. Lol

 

[strange6]

I think that Liverpool to Edinburgh would have been BR CrossCountry, possibly with the 158s on loan from Regional Railways (I am not sure about that though).

I think they have been removed a long time ago.

Yes, they were BR cross-country trains come to think of it. I never, ever observed anybody in the first class compartment in 9 months of commuting believe it or not. They were just deeper seats with a table and some deep pile carpet. No food, drink or host.

 

[WestCoast]

That is interesting !

How long did First North Western's London routes survive and were they well used ?

The services began in the early days of North Western Trains (1997) and lasted until 2000.

The official reason given for their cancellation was pathing issues, but Virgin can't have been happy with the prospect of FNW introducing 125mph stock.

There were two return trips a day from Man Vic. to London, with one extending to Rochdale.

I think the Blackpool and Man Vic/Rochdale service (ran via Newton-le-Willows) coupled up at Warrington Bank Quay.

The fares were cheap (something like £25 walk-up return), I only ever travelled once and I can't remember the loads. It didn't stop at the main stops, I reckon the only major stop on the WCML was Tamworth.

 

[yorksrob]

The services began in the early days of North Western Trains (1997) and lasted until 2000.

The official reason given for their cancellation was pathing issues, but Virgin can't have been happy with the prospect of FNW introducing 125mph stock.

There were two return trips a day from Man Vic. to London, with one extending to Rochdale.

I think the Blackpool and Man Vic/Rochdale service (ran via Newton-le-Willows) coupled up at Warrington Bank Quay.

The fares were cheap (something like £25 walk-up return), I only ever travelled once and I can't remember the loads. It didn't stop at the main stops, I reckon the only major stop on the WCML was Tamworth.

I would have thought they'd have been very popular with prices like that !

 

[scotsman]

I think Northern may well consider doing Blackpool - London with Class 180s. If they ever get any extra stock.

 

[WestCoast]

I think Northern may well consider doing Blackpool - London with Class 180s. If they ever get any extra stock.

The 180s are leaving soon (I don't know the timescales), to be replaced with 7 pacers (142s) from FGW, which have been on loan to them.

After that, Northern will be operating all ex-BR DMUs, nothing more recent than 1992 build DMUs.

 

[strange6]

The 180s are leaving soon (I don't know the timescales), to be replaced with 7 pacers (142s) from FGW, which have been on loan to them.

Poor, old Northern lol They get dumped on left, right and centre.

 

[driver9000]

The 180s should be gone by the end of the year. Until then you can pretend you're travelling 1st with Northern in coach D.

 

[strange6]

Errrr no, can't offer a Pot Noodle because it would need an onboard kettle. Negating the obvious health and safety implications, that kind of power taken off the electrics could lead to the Pacer sitting at a stand for at least a minute. It would be a sausage roll picked up at the last station with a Greggs on it. :roll:

yes it can. There are things called thermos flasks you know
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 180s should be gone by the end of the year. Until then you can pretend you're travelling 1st with Northern in coach D.

Is that the clean coach?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Is that the clean coach?

It is the 'First Class' coach on Class 180s, used by FGW, HT and GC, but declassified on Northern services.

 

[tbtc]

I am still waiting for Northern to challenge Virgin and East Coast and run services to London. It's not as daft as it sounds, First North Western ran Blackpool North - Euston (using 158s), Rochdale/Manchester Victoria - Euston (using 158s) and Manchester Airport - Euston (using 322s?)

Thats because Northern are good at sticking to the basics (which they do fairly well) - FNW had grand ambitions but were still cancelling *lots* of local trains (and running 101s on others) whilst they diverted resources to running cheap London services.

There's no doubt that in an ideal world there are lots of routes Northern operate which are suitable for First Class operation (either due to journey length or wealthy passengers)

• Posh commuters from Knutsford into Manchester
• Posh commuters from Harrogate into Leeds
• Long distance regional market from Carlisle to Newcastle
• Long distance regional market from Nottingham to Leeds

...all of these would have some First Class demand. Instead we expect people to do journeys like Hexham - Newcastle on Pacers because there's nothing else. However, if replacement stock can provide at least as many Standard Class seats as we have now (ideally a lot more, of course) then I'd be happy for First Class sections in addition (just not "instead of")

Things may change when Lancashire gets its EMUs - if they already have First Class sections then will Northern keep them? A four coach EMU will be bigger than two Pacers so there's scope for all existing passengers to get a seat *and* room for a separate First Class section.

Depends also whether "Transpennine" services (like Blackpool - Manchester) are incorporated into Northern - do they keep their First Class offering?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think Northern may well consider doing Blackpool - London with Class 180s. If they ever get any extra stock.

If Northern find spare stock and resources to operate London routes (whilst still running crowded Pacers on many local services) then I'd despair!

 

[WestCoast]

Is that the clean coach?

No, it's the declassified First Class on the 180s! Don't worry, it's well known about. The furnishings are in First Barbie colours.

Thats because Northern are good at sticking to the basics (which they do fairly well) - FNW had grand ambitions but were still cancelling *lots* of local trains (and running 101s on others) whilst they diverted resources to running cheap London services.

Well, yes, it was just something of interest to fit in with the thread, I wasn't seriously suggesting it with Northern's chronic stock shortages.

 

[strange6]

It is the 'First Class' coach on Class 180s, used by FGW, HT and GC, but declassified on Northern services.

I know! Just another light hearted comment! I do like Northern really!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think Blackpool North-York, Leeds-Nottingham, Sheffield-Hull and Carlisle-Newcastle may all have some potential, and 158s are diagrammed for all runs on the above except the latter, which is 142 / 156. I think one Nottingham-Leeds is a 153 and 150 as well...

 

[strange6]

A first class service along the Cumbrian route would be nice. Would be popular too if reasonably priced

 

[MidnightFlyer]

A first class service along the Cumbrian route would be nice. Would be popular too if reasonably priced

I am aware of no such service - Cumbrian Coast or the Carlisle-Newcastle trains?

 

[WestCoast]

The DfT doesn't seem to treat Northern very seriously at all. The portfolio of Pacers continue to grow, as does overcrowding, while LM is getting more shiny new stock.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The DfT doesn't seem to treat Northern very seriously at all. The portfolio of Pacers continue to grow, as does overcrowding, while LM is getting more shiny new stock.

basically we get treated like s**t, never changes

 

[pmgarvey]

The DfT doesn't seem to treat Northern very seriously at all. The portfolio of Pacers continue to grow, as does overcrowding, while LM is getting more shiny new stock.

In all fairness I'd rather more Pacers than trying to make do with what is there at the moment, Northern desperately needs stock.

 

[WestCoast]

In all fairness I'd rather more Pacers than trying to make do with what is there at the moment, Northern desperately needs stock.

Well, the more stock the better, even if it is Pacers. The area Northern operates in is a growing market, it's not "zero-growth" at all.

However, many get the feeling that Northern are the very bottom of the DfT's priority list. Their only hope is cascades and they are dependent on LM to release stock.

To a certain extent, EMT Local gets treated in the same way.

 

[Yew]

basically we get treated like s**t, never changes

I think its mainly because of the olympics. Lets keep all the shiny new trains where they can make a good impression. However I dont like the 'cascading' system, why not just replace the bad trains (pacers) and improve the fleet by average

If they dft had payed for a good refurbishment of the 150's they could be as good as a 158/170 if they re-engined and refurbished the interior

Then the leftover money could go to pacer replacement (with 172's) or refurbishing the remaining 150/3/6's to the standard for LM