Northern First Class

[anti-pacer]

As the 1029 Preston-Windermere service, operated by Northern, is currently being operated by a TPE 185, does this mean First Class is declassified as Northern only have Standard Class services? Or does First Class still stand?

 

[voyagerdude220]

The staff brief I got a few weeks ago stated that FC is to be enforced on all Northern services formed of Class 185s, contrary to the belief that myself and other colleagues originally thought- we were under the impression that it was going to be declassified.

 

[Starmill]

Please consult the timetable. If you do, you will see that First Class is available on this service. If you wish to make use of the First Class accommodation, you may purchase a First Class ticket

 

[ScotTrains]

Is the catering provision still the same (on the trains that have it) and is it offered to first class complimentary?

 

[anti-pacer]

Is the catering provision still the same (on the trains that have it) and is it offered to first class complimentary?

No catering whatsoever.

 

[ScotTrains]

No catering whatsoever.

Are you sure? I was looking to get the 0940 Blackpool North to Manchester Northern service next month on a Saturday. The booking engine and realtimetrains both say it has first class and a trolley service. Some of the Barrow services also claim to have a trolley. Is this a mistake?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

As far as I am aware, anti-pacer is correct, no catering.

 

[anti-pacer]

This is stupid! I have called Northern Rail and asked which services have First Class on. "None" was the answer. I explained yesterday's situation and was told that because it's a TPE train, THEIR rules apply! How can this be the case? Northern are leasing some of their 185's, that's all. If TPE conditions apply where's the trolley service?

Based on this, am I to assume that the HST set that VTEC are leasing from EMT is subject to EMT's terms? If so I'll look forward to one of their breakfasts whilst travelling through Biggleswade instead of Bedford. By the same token if a bus company buys a second hand bus that still has London Buses branding, even though it may not be in London I take it I can use my Oyster card on it. No, of course I can't.

I don't care what stock Northern are leasing, borrowing, call it what you will, if Northern as a TOC don't have First Class, they shouldn't be able to cherry pick rules from others. They should declassify First Class on any service they operate.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

This is stupid! I have called Northern Rail and asked which services have First Class on. "None" was the answer. I explained yesterday's situation and was told that because it's a TPE train, THEIR rules apply! How can this be the case? Northern are leasing some of their 185's, that's all. If TPE conditions apply where's the trolley service?....

Did you contact them via email, phone, Twitter, Facebook or some other way?

 

[anti-pacer]

Did you contact them via email, phone, Twitter, Facebook or some other way?

Phone.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Ah, that would explain it, it's the "Customer Experience Centre" run by Carillion, and it does seem to be an "experience" most of the time. They'll know what they learnt in the minimal training they got and whatever they've managed to work out in the two months they've had the contract. My experiences with them so far aren't good.

 

[Starmill]

It isn't a TPE service. It has nothing to do with them other than a contract Northern have with them to provide some trains and crew. First Class is definitely available and is indicated in the timetable. As I understand it if a trolley service is listed that's likely to be a mistake, so it's worth trying to get an answer on that, and worth complaining should it turn out to be incorrect.

What I'd love to know is, are Northern still offering £6 Weekend First? There's certainly no suggestion that they are. They're also not offering Advance First - so it's become quite an expensive place on the train to sit.

 

[voyagerdude220]

That's a very good point which I forgot to mention, Starmill.

The brief I referred to, whilst making no reference to Advance First tickets, also stated that Weekend First will not be available on Northern services operated by Class 185 trains. Surely this means that FC will be particularly quiet on these trains at weekends.

 

[anti-pacer]

So should Northern be enforcing First Class rules or not?

 

[cool110]

So should Northern be enforcing First Class rules or not?

Yes, the timetable has the 1, so Northern are actually running a First Class service

 

[MarlowDonkey]

It isn't a TPE service. It has nothing to do with them other than a contract Northern have with them to provide some trains and crew.

I was travelling from London to Grange over Sands recently. According to National Rail Enquiries, I would change to a Northern train at Preston, bound for Barrow. What was actually in the platform was a TPE branded train, a three coach 185 with about 75% of one carriage designated first class.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I was travelling from London to Grange over Sands recently. According to National Rail Enquiries, I would change to a Northern train at Preston, bound for Barrow. What was actually in the platform was a TPE branded train, a three coach 185 with about 75% of one carriage designated first class.

The automatic announcements on Northern's Class 185 trains to Barrow still tell you that you are travelling on a TPE service. Whereas Old Northern have managed to "de-branded" all of their station signs, stations on the Furness Line are still branded as TPE stations. It' almost like nothing has changed and bound to cause confusion amongst passengers.

 

[Haywain]

However, the train is still a service operated by Northern and, if advertised as such in the NRT, still conveys 1st class accommodation.

 

[Starmill]

First Class is shown in the timetable and marked on the train. While the other discrepancies may be confusing or sub-optimal, that doesn't change this!

 

[Central Trains]

The automatic announcements on Northern's Class 185 trains to Barrow still tell you that you are travelling on a TPE service. Whereas Old Northern have managed to "de-branded" all of their station signs, stations on the Furness Line are still branded as TPE stations. It' almost like nothing has changed and bound to cause confusion amongst passengers.

The 185 I travelled on from Barrow was bound for Preston and the automated announcements just said service. I think it depends on what PIS code the driver keys in.

 

[All Line Rover]

The brief I referred to, whilst making no reference to Advance First tickets, also stated that Weekend First will not be available on Northern services operated by Class 185 trains. Surely this means that FC will be particularly quiet on these trains at weekends.

We're talking about Arriva. The same train company that thinks passengers purchasing a first class Advance ticket for the 09:27 from Manchester to Reading should pay £164.20 if boarding at Manchester, but £54.30 if boarding at Stockport at 09:35.

First TransPennine Express has long operated a sensible pricing policy for medium and long distance journeys. Excellent value first class advance fares are available and first class is rarely overcrowded and is exceptionally comfortable (on the 185s). Arriva, on the other hand, will just be carting around fresh air.

 

[voyagerdude220]

That is so true, ALR! And I couldn't agree more with your point about XC's mad "system" of pricing their Advance tickets, as it sounds like you're aware of yourself, it's very often cheaper to split tickets on journeys with XC, even with Advance singles, but that's going off topic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the timetable it appears all the Barrow services are Standard only - are the 185-operated ones therefore declassified?

 

[221129]

In the timetable it appears all the Barrow services are Standard only - are the 185-operated ones therefore declassified?

The Time table doesn't mention any first class services to Windermere also.

 

[northwichcat]

We're talking about Arriva. The same train company that thinks passengers purchasing a first class Advance ticket for the 09:27 from Manchester to Reading should pay £164.20 if boarding at Manchester, but £54.30 if boarding at Stockport at 09:35.

First TransPennine Express has long operated a sensible pricing policy for medium and long distance journeys.

Really? TPE have a not before 07:45 restriction for an Off-Peak return between Knutsford/Mobberley and York when a Northern service departs Knutsford at 07:44 and Mobberley at 07:49. Obviously you would get the same onward TPE train from Piccadilly whichever station you boarded the connecting Northern service at.

 

[janb]

In the timetable it appears all the Barrow services are Standard only - are the 185-operated ones therefore declassified?

Some of the 185 services are advertised (not necessarily in Northern's timetable, that's not fit for purpose for many many reasons) as having First Class, others are not. Those advertised definitely have First Class, advances are sold etc. As for the class 185 trains that physically have First Class but are not advertised as doing so in NRT or Journey Planners, I don't know what Northern expect to happen.