northern electrification and Crewe-Chester

[NotATrainspott]

Attempting to get rid of that many bridges without replacement is going to be a political and economic nightmare.
The amount that would cost would be titanic.

Unless you go for conductor rail throughout it will never be electrified.

Conductor bar would certainly cost less than bridge modification and it would give the companies who supply it a chance to prove its worth making electrification that much easier.

 

[joeykins82]

Looking at the 2009 Electrification RUS document, Crewe to Chester electrification is listed as a tier 1 scheme with no other dependencies (it has one of the best conversion rates of diesel to electric passenger services per single track km of electrification). I believe that every other tier 1 scheme that doesn't include another lower-ranking electrification scheme as a prerequisite has already been announced.

 

[D1009]

if Farnworth tunnel can be wired then Christleton should be able to be done too.

Can anyone enlighten me as to why Christleton Tunnel is so difficult to wire compared to any other tunnel, other than it being twin bore?

 

[The Planner]

Presumably because it is a bit tight, it is only W7 gauge along there.

 

[Boysteve]

Christleton Tunnel blah blah blah,
For years I read on here and in the written press that the direct Bolton to Preston would never be wired owing to the 'flying buttresses' North of Chorley, well it's happening.
Now the Chester to Crewe line is virtually impossible to electrify according to some, well it has tricky points for sure but solutions will be found. I am surprised every time I drive along the M602 just how close wires are to bridges with the supports sticking out from the side of the bridge support.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Christleton Tunnel blah blah blah,
For years I read on here and in the written press that the direct Bolton to Preston would never be wired owing to the 'flying buttresses' North of Chorley, well it's happening.
Now the Chester to Crewe line is virtually impossible to electrify according to some, well it has tricky points for sure but solutions will be found. I am surprised every time I drive along the M602 just how close wires are to bridges with the supports sticking out from the side of the bridge support.

Well said +1

 

[Holly]

Christleton Tunnel blah blah blah,
For years I read on here and in the written press that the direct Bolton to Preston would never be wired owing to the 'flying buttresses' North of Chorley, well it's happening.
Now the Chester to Crewe line is virtually impossible to electrify according to some, well it has tricky points for sure but solutions will be found. I am surprised every time I drive along the M602 just how close wires are to bridges with the supports sticking out from the side of the bridge support.

It's not that it is impossible to do, I don't think anyone has suggested that.

It is that a new route would be cheaper, quicker to build, less disruptive during construction, faster and bigger loading gauge, with better drainage when completed and with lower ongoing maintenance cost as compared with electrifying the old route.

But those considerations aside it is perfectly possibly to upgrade the old route.

 

[The Planner]

How would it be quicker to build when it would need the TWAO and public enquiries that go with it, not that it is going to go any further than an internet forum anyway?

 

[driver_m]

Can anyone enlighten me as to why Christleton Tunnel is so difficult to wire compared to any other tunnel, other than it being twin bore?

It's narrow, low, floods at the slightest bit of rain and looks like it would be a pain to alter with the bores being close together.

 

[HSTEd]

How would it be quicker to build when it would need the TWAO and public enquiries that go with it, not that it is going to go any further than an internet forum anyway?

We need public enquiries and environmental reports as it is.

 

[Holly]

How would it be quicker to build when it would need the TWAO and public enquiries that go with it, not that it is going to go any further than an internet forum anyway?

I agree that it is not going to happen.
I don't agree that it should not happen.
Ay the very least it should be costed out, if only to compare upgrade costs against.
When I wrote of quicker to build I was referring to design and physical construction.
Legal paperwork for either option could take arbitrarily long, for every and a day until the powers that be decide they want to push it through with an Act of Parliament. Then presto-chango, done. Just like that.

Oh, and by the way, it would cost very little more to build it to HS standards so as to future-proof the line.

 

[snowball]

We need public enquiries and environmental reports as it is.

Other lines being electrified haven't required public inquiries, why would online electrification require one in this case?

Any environmental investigations for electrification elsewhere have been on about 0.1% of the scale of what would be required for a new line. Why would this line be any different?

Ay the very least it should be costed out, if only to compare upgrade costs against.

There isn't yet a proposal to cost out, until you describe your route through Christleton.

Legal paperwork for either option could take arbitrarily long, for every and a day until the powers that be decide they want to push it through with an Act of Parliament. Then presto-chango, done. Just like that.

If there was any truth in that, the HS2 bill would have been passed by now.

 

[pablo]

Can anyone enlighten me as to why Christleton Tunnel is so difficult to wire compared to any other tunnel, other than it being twin bore?

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this one carry the Shropshire Union canal at an angle? Bit difficult to raise that.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this one carry the Shropshire Union canal at an angle? Bit difficult to raise that.

I'm imagine we'll be seeing track lowering, then.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Why? The link to Crewe is considerably more important, and would be the first step for the electrification of the North Wales Coast.

Who considers it more important?
You assume it would be the first step but if you look across the electrification programme across the North, electrifying Warrington to Chester (and then the NW Coast) opens up access across the North and into Scotland.

And it is being considered.
http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2013/12/13-new-boost-for-railway-electrification.html
And it would be a lot cheaper. A lot less bridge infrastructure for one.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Who considers it more important?
You assume it would be the first step but if you look across the electrification programme across the North, electrifying Warrington to Chester (and then the NW Coast) opens up access across the North and into Scotland.

And it is being considered.
http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2013/12/13-new-boost-for-railway-electrification.html
And it would be a lot cheaper. A lot less bridge infrastructure for one.

I imagine it is being considered, but it's not an either/or thing. It's a more important route simply because Virgin run over it. The link to Warrington I imagine will happen a bit later.

 

[Thom]

Why? The link to Crewe is considerably more important, and would be the first step for the electrification of the North Wales Coast.

Something I, as a North Walian, am greatly in favour of.

In fact, I'm from the first station in Wales along the NWCL just after Chester and the Borderlands Wrexham-Bidston line crosses over here too, and there has also been talk, albeit slow talk, of electrifying this as well.

It would mean giving the Merseyrail 507s and 508s some extra trackage to utilise and, when Merseyrail does replace them, Merseyrail could possibly give them to ATW or whomever is running the franchise at the time. Although 35 year old trains probably won't be what you'd expect from a recently electrified line...

 

[TheWalrus]

On another note when are the old Merseyrail trains going to be replaced and by what?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On another note when are the old Merseyrail trains going to be replaced and by what?

Nothing planned. Seems to have gone back into the "too hard" tray.
They are considering another refurbishment.

 

[DJH1971]

Nothing planned. Seems to have gone back into the "too hard" tray.
They are considering another reburbishment.

They will have to be replaced at some point.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

They will have to be replaced at some point.

Yes and to me if they used common sense and planned for the years ahead they would be dual voltage.

 

[Holly]

Nothing planned. Seems to have gone back into the "too hard" tray.
They are considering another reburbishment.

I hope any refurb includes a switch that lets the passengers turn off the heating on hot summer days.
No need for a fancy thermostat, just one nice robust on/off switch in each coach that won't break when abused.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes and to me if they used common sense and planned for the years ahead they would be dual voltage.

I imagine one of the factors is what happens to the dual-voltage cascades from Thameslink.
There will soon be a few 319s at Allerton which could be tested in the Merseyrail tunnels.

 

[DJH1971]

There will soon be a few 319s at Allerton which could be tested in the Merseyrail tunnels.

Interesting idea, if they are actually coming up North.

 

[Rail North]

Anybody got any idea what class of EMU Northern may be getting this year

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Anybody got any idea what class of EMU Northern may be getting this year

....and in what condition they are likely to be....

It was mentioned recently on another thread that all the Class 319 units will receive are external Northern name vinyls. I did not realise that there were other forum members who have the capacity for expressing their cynicism in a like manner that is said to be found in some of my postings.

 

[L&Y Robert]

....and in what condition they are likely to be....

It was mentioned recently on another thread that all the Class 319 units will receive are external Northern name vinyls. I did not realise that there were other forum members who have the capacity for expressing their cynicism in a like manner that is said to be found in some of my postings.

Steady, Paul!

 

[Wavertreelad]

Steady, Paul!

I've just read in Rail 742 that the Chancellor refused to comment on the subject when he was asked the question recently when visiting the building works at Manchester Airport station.

Or as they might say in Whitehall, "Well Chancellor it would not be proper to announce details of the budget in advance of the official announcement next month." said Sir Humphrey, "That would be a leak" chipped in Bernard, "Precisely", said the Chancellor. "Tea anybody?" he added.