Northern Duo's

[Paul Duck]

Sorry guys but Northern are removing the popular Northern duo ticket on most flows in Teesside from 5th September. They are been replaced by off peak day return flows.
Example:
2 returns Eaglescliffe to Saltburn £9.10
From 5th Septmeber £10.20

 

[Wallsendmag]

Sorry guys but Northern are removing the popular Northern duo ticket on most flows in Teesside from 5th September. They are been replaced by off peak day return flows.
Example:
2 returns Eaglescliffe to Saltburn £9.10
From 5th Septmeber £10.20

So the fact that one person can travel 16% cheaper than before isn't good news?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has not the Two Together Railcard effectively replaced the need for these tickets?

 

[Starmill]

It has been slightly undermined by the Two Together Railcard. Yes this requires the one-off purchase but it doesn't take many journeys before the saving is recouped against Duo tickets, and it isn't restricted only to journeys where Northern offer Duo. Perhaps it's time for them to move to a more conventional discount scheme that also caters to odd numbers of people?

 

[Bletchleyite]

GroupSave, you mean? Yes, that could do with being rolled out nationally to all TOCs.

 

[185]

Sorry guys but Northern are removing the popular Northern duo ticket on most flows in Teesside from 5th September. They are been replaced by off peak day return flows.
Example:
2 returns Eaglescliffe to Saltburn £9.10
From 5th Septmeber £10.20

What would be of concern if Arriva were the major bus operator in the area.

The current CC investigation is focussing on Bus/Train and Train/Train monopolies created by multiple Arriva Group companies.

 

[yorksrob]

It has been slightly undermined by the Two Together Railcard. Yes this requires the one-off purchase but it doesn't take many journeys before the saving is recouped against Duo tickets, and it isn't restricted only to journeys where Northern offer Duo. Perhaps it's time for them to move to a more conventional discount scheme that also caters to odd numbers of people?

I agree. A decent group save offer across Northern would be preferable to the very patchy duo promotion which, even on the few occasions I would have made use of it, never seemed to be available for any of the journeys I wanted to do.

As for introducing off-peak tickets to flows that don't have them, I wholeheartedly agree with this, although for many journeys, a day return, priced at approximately two thirds of the existing anytime would seem more appropriate.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

So the fact that one person can travel 16% cheaper than before isn't good news?

It's good for some, not for others.

As you say, one person paying £1 less is good, but then two people paying £1 more is bad.

 

[Starmill]

Some important questions:

1 What are the restrictions on the new Off-Peak Day Returns?
2 Do any of them cost less than the Anytime Day Single?
3 Are there to be any Off-Peak Day Singles?
4 Are there any changes to the price of existing fares?

 

[Paul Duck]

So the fact that one person can travel 16% cheaper than before isn't good news?

Not sure I get what you mean sorry. When customers buy the Duo they split the fare between them. So at the minute a Duo to Saltburn, £9.10, is £4.55 each but will go up to £5.10 each.

With the introduction of off peak singles and returns (valid after 0859 M-F) it will reduce fares for a number of destinations which is great. Eaglescliffe - Whitby off peak day return £9.30 instead of the current £11.00 day return! A railcard Eaglescliffe - Middlesbrough return goes to £1.85! Bargain!
Should hopefully bring in some more leisure traffic.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Not sure I get what you mean sorry. When customers buy the Duo they split the fare between them. So at the minute a Duo to Saltburn, £9.10, is £4.55 each but will go up to £5.10 each....

What Wallsendmag means is one person travelling alone currently pays £6.10 for an Anytime Day Return. That will reduce by approximately 16% to £5.10 for the Off-Peak Day Return. (£6.10 x 0.84 = ~£5.12)

 

[Paul Duck]

What Wallsendmag means is one person travelling alone currently pays £6.10 for an Anytime Day Return. That will reduce by approximately 16% to £5.10 for the Off-Peak Day Return. (£6.10 x 0.84 = ~£5.12)

No worries

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Sorry guys but Northern are removing the popular Northern duo ticket on most flows in Teesside from 5th September. They are been replaced by off peak day return flows.
Example:
2 returns Eaglescliffe to Saltburn £9.10
From 5th Septmeber £10.20

Is the Duo ticket just being withdrawn on Teesside or is the ticket being phased out altogether? And where are you getting your info from?

If you could let me know I'll forgive you the misplaced apostrophe in the thread title!

 

[JohnB57]

If you could let me know I'll forgive you the misplaced apostrophe in the thread title!

Not misplaced, just unnecessary.

But you're forgiven.

 

[Clip]

Is the Duo ticket just being withdrawn on Teesside or is the ticket being phased out altogether? And where are you getting your info from?

If you could let me know I'll forgive you the misplaced apostrophe in the thread title!

Think the OP is the guy behind Chester le street station so wouldve got the update from Northern directly

 

[janb]

Is the Duo ticket just being withdrawn on Teesside or is the ticket being phased out altogether? And where are you getting your info from?

Disappearing from Furness line as well, with the introduction of CDS/CDR. Another change is that lots of journeys on the Northern network now have Anytime Short Returns (1 day outward validity) instead of Anytime Returns.

Got the information from Northern, but now that we are within 4 weeks of the fares round the fares post 4th September are 'live' so its no secret anymore. Just put whatever journey you are interested in, in a journey planner for a date after 4th September and you can see the lay of the land.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Disappearing from Furness line as well, with the introduction of CDS/CDR. Another change is that lots of journeys on the Northern network now have Anytime Short Returns (1 day outward validity) instead of Anytime Returns.

A completely unnecessary piece of non-simplification there.

 

[yorksrob]

It has been slightly undermined by the Two Together Railcard. Yes this requires the one-off purchase but it doesn't take many journeys before the saving is recouped against Duo tickets, and it isn't restricted only to journeys where Northern offer Duo. Perhaps it's time for them to move to a more conventional discount scheme that also caters to odd numbers of people?

Disappearing from Furness line as well, with the introduction of CDS/CDR. Another change is that lots of journeys on the Northern network now have Anytime Short Returns (1 day outward validity) instead of Anytime Returns.

Got the information from Northern, but now that we are within 4 weeks of the fares round the fares post 4th September are 'live' so its no secret anymore. Just put whatever journey you are interested in, in a journey planner for a date after 4th September and you can see the lay of the land.

What's the price difference between the CDR and the previous cheapest return option ? If it's significant it's a step forward.

Having a difference between anytime returns and anytime short returns seems a bit of an obscure and pointless complication. There can't be vast numbers of people who buy anytime returns to travel within the next couple of days who will justify a change.

 

[Starmill]

Some good savings are to be had on popular journeys:

Barrow-in-Furness to Lancaster SDR £14, new CDR £11.90
Whitehaven to Carlisle SDR £11.90, new CDR £9.70
Workington to Barrow-in-Furness (via Sellafield) SDR £13.50, new CDR £11.40
Barow-in-Furness to Carlisle (via Sellafield) SDR £19.00, new CDR £16.10


I note that some flows to Preston are also having their Anytime Return changed to an Anytime Short Return.

The Esk Valley Line is included. Whitby to Middlesbrough SDR was pretty cheap at £8.30 but there will be a new CDR at £7. I bought a Whitby to Kildale return Sunday last, this will go down from £8.10 to £6.80. Drat haha. I am impressed.

The furthest distance I have found is Whitby to Prudhoe (via Hartlepool) goes from £19.20 SDR to £16.30 CDR.

My conclusion here is that they have taken flows where there was an SDR and added a CDR at approximately a 15-16% discount.


Any other areas of the country where they are introducing new fares, or just Cumbrian Coast and Teeside? Any new Advance tickets?

Edit: I have answered my own question. Alnmouth to Newcastle Anytime Day Return £12.90. There is a new Off-Peak Day Return being added at £10.90. I wonder if Virgin Trains East Coast (7 trains a day) and CrossCountry (8 trains a day) approve? Northern only operate 2. At least they have gone to the trouble of introducing an Alnmouth to Chathill CDR

A few that will please certain forum members (I'm looking at you, Yorksrob):

Leeds to Carlisle (Via Appleby) SDR £34.60, new CDR £29.40
Leeds to Lancaster (Via Skipton) SDR £24.40, new CDR £20.70
Preston to Blackpool North SDR £8.70 new CDR £7.30
Preston to Blackpool South SDR £8.00 new CDR £6.80
Colne to Preston SDR £11.10, new CDR £9.40
Huddersfield to Chesterfield SDR £12.60, new CDR £10.70. NB This is a problematic fare because it disallows travel on the quickest route, which is via Horbury and the Kirkgate - Westgate link. The more expensive Via Leeds option also disallows this and I'm pretty angry that this hasn't been fixed despite me complaining about it. The via Penistone fare was never valid via Leeds but used to be routed Any Permited.

Where the Anytime Day Single would have cost more than the new CDR, so with Preston to Blackpool South the SDS was £7.20, an Off-Peak Day Single has been introduced at 10p less, so in this case there is a CDS for £6.70. I haven't checked all the singles though, so if someone knows if they have done it only where the SDS would cost more I would be very interested.

So have Northern just done this for all flows where there was an SDR but no CDR?

 

[yorksrob]

Some good savings are to be had on popular journeys:

Barrow-in-Furness to Lancaster SDR £14, new CDR £11.90
Whitehaven to Carlisle SDR £11.90, new CDR £9.70
Workington to Barrow-in-Furness (via Sellafield) SDR £13.50, new CDR £11.40
Barow-in-Furness to Carlisle (via Sellafield) SDR £19.00, new CDR £16.10


I note that some flows to Preston are also having their Anytime Return changed to an Anytime Short Return.

The Esk Valley Line is included. Whitby to Middlesbrough SDR was pretty cheap at £8.30 but there will be a new CDR at £7. I bought a Whitby to Kildale return Sunday last, this will go down from £8.10 to £6.80. Drat haha. I am impressed.

The furthest distance I have found is Whitby to Prudhoe (via Hartlepool) goes from £19.20 SDR to £16.30 CDR.

My conclusion here is that they have taken flows where there was an SDR and added a CDR at approximately a 15-16% discount.


Any other areas of the country where they are introducing new fares, or just Cumbrian Coast and Teeside? Any new Advance tickets?

Edit: I have answered my own question. Alnmouth to Newcastle Anytime Day Return £12.90. There is a new Off-Peak Day Return being added at £10.90. I wonder if Virgin Trains East Coast (7 trains a day) and CrossCountry (8 trains a day) approve? Northern only operate 2. At least they have gone to the trouble of introducing an Alnmouth to Chathill CDR

A few that will please certain forum members (I'm looking at you, Yorksrob):

Leeds to Carlisle (Via Appleby) SDR £34.60, new CDR £29.40
Leeds to Lancaster (Via Skipton) SDR £24.40, new CDR £20.70
Preston to Blackpool North SDR £8.70 new CDR £7.30
Preston to Blackpool South SDR £8.00 new CDR £6.80

Where the Anytime Day Single would have cost more than the new CDR, so with Preston to Blackpool South the SDS was £7.20, an Off-Peak Day Single has been introduced at 10p less, so in this case there is a CDS for £6.70. I haven't checked all the singles though, so if someone knows if they have done it only where the SDS would cost more I would be very interested.

So have Northern just done this for all flows where there was an SDR but no CDR?

Thanks Starmill. Some definate improvements - particularly the Little North Western and Settle - Carlisle routes which were due some decent day offers.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

...

Any other areas of the country where they are introducing new fares, or just Cumbrian Coast and Teeside? Any new Advance tickets?

Also appear to be introduced on the East Lancs line too, which is also currently Duo territory.

 

[yorksrob]

As I recall, the Little North Western and S&C didn't even have the duo offer available.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having a difference between anytime returns and anytime short returns seems a bit of an obscure and pointless complication. There can't be vast numbers of people who buy anytime returns to travel within the next couple of days who will justify a change.

I think the reason for the Anytime Short Return is basically to prevent the use of an Anytime Return as a five-day season ticket due to Northern's poor revenue protection.

I rather think they should fix the problem rather than restrict fares, though.

 

[Starmill]

As I recall, the Little North Western and S&C didn't even have the duo offer available.

Correct. Whitby didn't either.

 

[yorksrob]

I think the reason for the Anytime Short Return is basically to prevent the use of an Anytime Return as a five-day season ticket due to Northern's poor revenue protection.

I rather think they should fix the problem rather than restrict fares, though.

I was under the impression you only got three days to use the outward portion in the anytime return anyway !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Five I believe. Two for an Anytime Single.


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[yorksrob]

Five I believe. Two for an Anytime Single.


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Oh, I wasn't aware. I can see how that might be an issue.

 

[greatkingrat]

But as the return portion is still valid for 30 days, it does nothing to stop people using them as a season ticket.

 

[Paul Duck]

Think the OP is the guy behind Chester le street station so wouldve got the update from Northern directly

I'll be honest in how I found out. I stumbled across a complaint on the Northern facebook page about the removal of duos from Bishop Auckland. After seeing this I flew across the office to find if this was true from journey planner. It was a major surprise to find them been removed as we believed that they were a great product from customer feedback. But like it has been discussed I now believe that the introduction of the off peak day returns on most flows is a great thing. I know it (off peak day returns) was part of Northerns contractual agreement but wasn't expecting to see them (off peak day returns) so soon.

I got the official brief this afternoon from Northern its still in the ticket office but I remember quite a few routes losing the Northern Duo product.

I work for Chester-le-track but are mainly based at the Eaglescliffe ticket office.

 

[yorksrob]

I'll be honest in how I found out. I stumbled across a complaint on the Northern facebook page about the removal of duos from Bishop Auckland. After seeing this I flew across the office to find if this was true from journey planner. It was a major surprise to find them been removed as we believed that they were a great product from customer feedback. But like it has been discussed I now believe that the introduction of the off peak day returns on most flows is a great thing. I know it (off peak day returns) was part of Northerns contractual agreement but wasn't expecting to see them (off peak day returns) so soon.

I got the official brief this afternoon from Northern its still in the ticket office but I remember quite a few routes losing the Northern Duo product.

I work for Chester-le-track but are mainly based at the Eaglescliffe ticket office.

I guess they might have been useful for some people. Hopefully some will take advantage of the two together railcard.