Northern DMU's visiting the 'Big Smoke'

[150222]

So is there anything to stop say: First Great Western operating a 143 on the Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour or Great Malvern to Southampton Central services? Subject to clearance of course.

 

[O L Leigh]

Nope, provided the traincrew signed the traction.

O L Leigh

 

[Bevan Price]

Perhaps on the Northern fleet, yes.

However, I would like to make the case for the Cl317s. These units have worked regular passenger services out of every OLE electrified London terminus except for Paddington. They've been at least as far as Birmingham on the WCML, Newcastle on the ECML and Norwich on the GEML as well as working to other destinations along each line.

O L Leigh

Three 317's reached Liverpool Lime Street on a relief from Euston when one of the London football teams had a match in Liverpool. Saw it at Crewe, and now wish I had taken a ride to Liverpool with them. Don't remember date, must have been 1980's or early 1990's.

 

[ChrisCooper]

MML hired a 170/5 from Central back in 2002 due to problems with their own fleet. Picture shows 170523 coupled to one of MMLs own 170/1s at St Pancras.

 

[ushawk]

So is there anything to stop say: First Great Western operating a 143 on the Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour or Great Malvern to Southampton Central services? Subject to clearance of course.

I think someone posted on here the other day that they cant work past Trowbridge for some reason, i dont think they would be cleared between Southampton and Portsmouth either.

That and you can imagine how annoyed people would be if a pacer turned up for a 4 hour journey.

 

[shedman]

MML hired a 170/5 from Central back in 2002 due to problems with their own fleet. Picture shows 170523 coupled to one of MMLs own 170/1s at St Pancras.

I thought it was a booked turn at one point to take a central 170 to STP. I'm almost certain I have worked one from Nottingham to St Pancras before.

 

[12CSVT]

I thought it was a booked turn at one point to take a central 170 to STP. I'm almost certain I have worked one from Nottingham to St Pancras before.

I seem to remember some of the Central Trains 170/5s and 170/6s were on loan to MML for a short time in 2001/2002

 

[tbtc]

will we see strictly London (South East England) DMU's work up North

There's not really been many London/ Network South East specific DMUs.

Of the current DMUs, the 165/166/168s get far enough out of the capital on a regular basis (Birmingham, Worcester etc).

171s are just 170s which had different couplers applied (159s aren't that different to 158s either).

Apart from that...

 

[hmp455]

A 159 being lent to EMT is quite plausible, although it's actually highly unlikely to happen.

SWT did own some 170s from 2000-2005. Anglia Railways also used 170s on the ill-fated Crosslink service (although why they couldn't use dual-voltage EMUs I don't know)

 

[Eagle]

SWT did own some 170s from 2000-2005. Anglia Railways also used 170s on the ill-fated Crosslink service (although why they couldn't use dual-voltage EMUs I don't know)

I think South Acton to Kew Bridge might not be electrified. Plus AR didn't actually have any DVEMUs...

170s into Liverpool Street only stopped recently (2010?), though.

 

[jopsuk]

Indeed- as a measure to
A: Improve the number of carriages on the rural lines and
B: stop wasting paths that can be used by up to 12-car EMUs on three car DMUs

 

[33056]

I think South Acton to Kew Bridge might not be electrified.

Correct.

Also, regarding 159s, saw 159 017 at Wichnor Junction a few years ago. No idea why now but presume off to Derby for something.

 

[SprinterMan]

I think South Acton to Kew Bridge might not be electrified. Plus AR didn't actually have any DVEMUs...

170s into Liverpool Street only stopped recently (2010?), though.

170s to Liverpool Street was a rather peculiar timetabling quirk on the part of NXEA. Anglia ran a few 170s into London to give BSE/LWT a daily through service to the capital, but then NXEA ("One" at the time) decided it would be a good idea to make Liverpool Street - Ipswich hourly 170 operatred with trains alternating between LWT and PBO (3 1/2 hrs journey time vs 45mins journey time for KGX). This caused horrendous overcrowding with many passengers looking for fast trains to Chelmsford/Colchester/Ipswich using these services. The upside to this timetabling was that Harwich got through trains from London throughout the day as the stopping Ipswich train was diverted there. In May 2010, NXEA switched back to what was effectively the 2003 FGE timetable with a few tweaks (talk about progress) and 170s stopped running to London (unless deputising for LHCS when no 321s are available). The may 2010 change meant that station signs are now wrong. At Marks Tey, for instance, there is a sign saying "This platform for trains to Colchester, Clacton and Harwich Town" when no off-peak Clacton trains stop at Marks Tey and there are no off-peak trains from London to Harwich Town. The sign should now read "This platform for trains to Colchester, Colchester Town and Ipswich".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed- as a measure to
A: Improve the number of carriages on the rural lines and
B: stop wasting paths that can be used by up to 12-car EMUs on three car DMUs

This exactly.
A 4-car 321 (let alone a 12 car) has far more capacity and far better acceleration than a 3-car 170. 321s often deputised for 170s between London and Ipswich anyway due to 170 non-availability, and with the East Anglain DMU shortage (LHCS with T&T 47s being sued in some cases) all the 170s are needed on the rural branch lines.

 

[transmanche]

Of the current DMUs, the 165/166/168s get far enough out of the capital on a regular basis (Birmingham, Worcester etc).

I'm sure I read somewhere that the 165/166s are a bit too wide to stray from ex-GWR land... or is that an urban myth?

 

[150222]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the 165/166s are a bit too wide to stray from ex-GWR land... or is that an urban myth?

That is true however Worcester via Oxford and Birmingham via Bicester are former GWR territory.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the 165/166s are a bit too wide to stray from ex-GWR land... or is that an urban myth?

That is true however Worcester via Oxford and Birmingham via Bicester are former GWR territory.

I'm sure there is a RSSB report floating around that showed that 165/166 units could be cleared with a bit of work for quite significant parts of the network.

 

[150222]

I'm sure there is a RSSB report floating around that showed that 165/166 units could be cleared with a bit of work for quite significant parts of the network.

Yes I think I've seen that. I'm on about where the are currently cleared.

 

[lm321412]

That is true however Worcester via Oxford and Birmingham via Bicester are former GWR territory.

There has also back in the NSE days been a Birmingham New Street - London Paddington Service which ended up Class 166s.

 

[transmanche]

That is true however Worcester via Oxford and Birmingham via Bicester are former GWR territory.

Indeed. But lost in the thread was that this was all in response to:

Or vis versa will we see strictly London (South East England) DMU's work up North.

Now I don't count Birmingham as 'up North'... others may disagree

So, back to the point - I'm unlikely to see a 165/166 on the S&C anytime soon then...

 

[westcoaster]

Never seen a 323 south of Northampton but have seen (and indeed been on) a 304 into / out of Euston.

regularly go to wolverton under there own power for exams, seen it many times. Also 170's also ran into the cross with hull trains.

 

[jopsuk]

170s have run in regular service into Liverpool Street, Kings Cross and St Pancras. The very closely related 168s serve Marylebone.

Have they ever served Euston at all? Would be a "full-house" of the "north" Terminuses.

 

[Phil6219]

I think it is time to throw this little gem in...

NSE Class 142

Fake of course but I'd love to see the faces on the punters should this turn up...

Speaking of the NWT Euston services does anyone know what the loads were like? I travelled on the 321 ex Manchester Airport and it was pretty much empty (and made up of either 2 or 3 units). They were definitely missing out on a lot of passengers because they couldn't stop at the stations served by Virgin, a bit unfair really given that they were a regional TOC, that said they probably shouldn't have been venturing into the long distance work anyway...

Was it First that knocked it on the head or did NWT drop it prior to being took over?

Phil :Cool:

 

[150222]

Well I certainly wouldnt want to spend 3/4 hours on a 322!

 

[Eagle]

Was it First that knocked it on the head or did NWT drop it prior to being took over?

I think it survived a while; weren't the 180s originally intended for FNW's London services?

 

[electra27000]

I think it survived a while; weren't the 180s originally intended for FNW's London services?

I seem to recall them being intended for the Rochdale and Blackpool services, originally.

 

[Wolf_359]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but when all the Silverlink 321s exploded or whatever it was that went wrong with them didn't pairs of 150s cover a couple of WCML duties out of Euston? I remember catching one such pair from MK to Northampton and being amazed at the slow acelleration, not to mention the noise in Hunsbury Hill Tunnel.

150's into Euston was a regular occurance on Saturdays nights throughout the WC upgrade as they would shut the power off to do the engineering work, & diesels were the only option.