Northern Diagram Queries

[darloscott]

As a few of you know I spend a fair bit of my time working out Northern's unit diagrams, and seeing the EMT thread pop up again has sparked my appetite for a thread for Northern. I don't know how many of you work for them but I'm hoping some can help with the queries my working out will bring!

I've got an interesting one to start you off...
3-car 158 on York-Blackpool's that appears to start/finish its day at York all the time...
2T02 0626 York-Leeds, 2T05 0724 Leeds-York, 1B19 0812 York-Blackpool, 1B26 1121 Blackpool-York, 2T18 1426 York-Leeds, 2T21 1524 Leeds-York, 1B35 1612 York-Blackpool, 1B42 1921 Blackpool-York, 2R99 2319 York-Selby, 2R96 2344 Selby-York, sleeping in p1 (or p7, as often happens) overnight starting on 2T02 again next day.
I'm assuming this must get swapped somewhere (for fuel, wash etc) but RTT doesn't suggest so... I guess it must rotate with the first one out (0512 Blackpool) which also appears to be a 3-car and finishes at Neville Hill. Anyone confirm?

 

[Adam0984]

Can’t confirm but as long as the diagram is correct as they’re not as simple as they were before the timetable change with some longer layovers at York to put 3 cars on certain peak services. York also has shunts that don’t feature on RTT taking them to the fuel point and shunted to different platforms etc

 

[Adam0984]

Looking at York above diagram on Thursday off RTT it does as above then Friday morning does the 0540 York to Selby and back then onto the York - Leeds/Bpool circuit for the day and ends at Bpool at 2308 and onto the depot

 

[IanXC]

Having taken a look at this as far as I can see on RTT it looks as though:

5A55 0008 arrival from Darlington shunts from 5 to 1 as 5R89 to form 2R89 0540 York to Selby, which is formed of 2 sets which split at Selby.

1B46 0021 arrival from Blackpool North forms 1B13 0512 to Blackpool North in platform 6.

5R89 shunt means that 2R89 is on top of 2R96 0008 ex Selby which looks to form 2T02 0626 to Leeds.

I don't think that answers the original question tho :/

 

[Adam0984]

I think the 0540 to Selby is 2 sets which split at Selby one comes back to York for the Blackpool’s and the ex Heaton/Darlo set goes to Scunthorpe

 

[darloscott]

The 0540 is 2x142 which split on arrival at Selby, one goes to Scunthorpe and the other eventually ends up back in York via Leeds if I remember right

 

[darloscott]

Here's another to be solved if someone has chance...
5C96 from Neville Hill at 1517 to Leeds positions into platform 5 arriving 1555.
Splits to form 2C96 1709 Knaresborough & 2H21 1726 Morecambe - now my thinking is this should be 3x 150, with 2 working to Knaresborough and the rear one to Morecambe.

My thinking behind this is Harrogate requires 5 units overnight as they have 5 departures on a morning:
0603 2G01 Leeds 170, 0632 2G03 Leeds 170, 0633 5C07 Kboro 170, 0713 2C77 Leeds (150?), 0717 5C11 Kboro (150?)
Only three services terminate there on an evening, these being the aforementioned 2C96 (arr as 5C96 from Kboro at 1809), and the two late ones from Leeds 2G16 arr 2317 as a 170, 2G18 arr 0016 as 2x170
Anyone confirm?

 

[DarloRich]

Can’t confirm but as long as the diagram is correct as they’re not as simple as they were before the timetable change with some longer layovers at York to put 3 cars on certain peak services. York also has shunts that don’t feature on RTT taking them to the fuel point and shunted to different platforms etc

have Northern got a fuel point at York? That I did not know. Where is it?

 

[northernchris]

Here's another to be solved if someone has chance...
5C96 from Neville Hill at 1517 to Leeds positions into platform 5 arriving 1555.
Splits to form 2C96 1709 Knaresborough & 2H21 1726 Morecambe - now my thinking is this should be 3x 150, with 2 working to Knaresborough and the rear one to Morecambe.

My thinking behind this is Harrogate requires 5 units overnight as they have 5 departures on a morning:
0603 2G01 Leeds 170, 0632 2G03 Leeds 170, 0633 5C07 Kboro 170, 0713 2C77 Leeds (150?), 0717 5C11 Kboro (150?)
Only three services terminate there on an evening, these being the aforementioned 2C96 (arr as 5C96 from Kboro at 1809), and the two late ones from Leeds 2G16 arr 2317 as a 170, 2G18 arr 0016 as 2x170
Anyone confirm?

5C96 is 2x150+153, with the pair of 150s working the 1709 to Knaresborough. The 153 attaches to a 150 which arrives from Morecambe at 1438 for the 1726 departure

 

[darloscott]

5C96 is 2x150+153, with the pair of 150s working the 1709 to Knaresborough. The 153 attaches to a 150 which arrives from Morecambe at 1438 for the 1726 departure

Thanks Chris, that certainly answers my question!

 

[northernchris]

Thanks Chris, that certainly answers my question!

No problem, I've been trying to (unsuccessfully!) work out some of Northern's diagrams, although noticed there's been some changes over the last couple of weeks which is complicating things!

 

[darloscott]

No problem, I've been trying to (unsuccessfully!) work out some of Northern's diagrams, although noticed there's been some changes over the last couple of weeks which is complicating things!

Certainly been some major changes in some diagrams with 170s moving to the coast and the North East timetable has been re-written too.

 

[northernchris]

There's been some tweaks since the initial changes in May too, one of the Leeds - Knottingley diagrams has switched from a 142 to a 144/3 as the 142 was often leaving people behind

 

[darloscott]

I've got 2 diagrams of 144/3 and the other as 2x142 on Knottingley?
How have you sorted the morning ones... I've got the 2x142 being 0525 York-Leeds, 0614 Leeds-Knott and 0730 back (& onwards), one '344' doing Goole both ends, and the other starting 0547 Leeds-Knott, 0715 back?
Also odd visits of 158 (2128 ex Leeds), 156 (2250 ex Leeds), 150 (2316 ex Leeds) interestingly.

 

[northernchris]

That seems to be the case, although the double pacer seems to throw up 144s quite a lot, and most of last week was a single pacer.

There's also an additional morning diagram which works 0524 Leeds - Knottingley, 0614 back to Leeds, 0658 to Knottingley and 0748 to Leeds before going on to Neville Hill. I'm not sure what's allocated to this, however the last time I saw it was a 144(3)+153

 

[Neptune]

Here's another to be solved if someone has chance...
5C96 from Neville Hill at 1517 to Leeds positions into platform 5 arriving 1555.
Splits to form 2C96 1709 Knaresborough & 2H21 1726 Morecambe - now my thinking is this should be 3x 150, with 2 working to Knaresborough and the rear one to Morecambe.

My thinking behind this is Harrogate requires 5 units overnight as they have 5 departures on a morning:
0603 2G01 Leeds 170, 0632 2G03 Leeds 170, 0633 5C07 Kboro 170, 0713 2C77 Leeds (150?), 0717 5C11 Kboro (150?)
Only three services terminate there on an evening, these being the aforementioned 2C96 (arr as 5C96 from Kboro at 1809), and the two late ones from Leeds 2G16 arr 2317 as a 170, 2G18 arr 0016 as 2x170
Anyone confirm?

2C77 0713 HGT - LDS is indeed a 150 but arrives at Harrogate coupled to 2G20 (170) 0623 ex LDS and split in P1 at HGT. After working 2C77 it then goes on to form 2H06 1018 to MCM.