Northern Complimentary Return: asked to date the return portion on outward journey

[Bletchleyite]

It's not an unreasonable question. It makes sense that you can travel with a more expensive ticket than you needed, but where free tickets are concerned then rules might be different.

They might, but they're not, and it's clearly stated.

 

[HSP 2]

They might, but they're not, and it's clearly stated.

Could you please post as we're going on a day out and I'll be using a DRPT and a normal ticket for travel for the two of use , so do you think that proof of age would be a good idea?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could you please post as we're going on a day out and I'll be using a DRPT and a normal ticket for travel for the two of use , so do you think that proof of age would be a good idea?

One adult and one child and an adult complimentary? Pay for the child, that's cheaper.

 

[HSP 2]

Could you please post as we're going on a day out and I'll be using a DRPT and a normal ticket for travel for the two of use , so do you think that proof of age would be a good idea?

One adult and one child and an adult complimentary? Pay for the child, that's cheaper.

You have misunderstood my message, for part of the trip we will be using adult DRPTs and for the next part normal tickets (using a F & F R/C) so do you think that it could be a good idea to have proof of age? The lads not yet 14 but he is tall built like a bean pole, not like me.

 

[Fare-Cop]

There is no legal requirement to carry proof of age in these circumstances, but it's always a good idea to be proactive and help yourselves by doing so.

 

[Greybeard33]

I had an altercation with a Northern conductor over one of these complimentary returns last week, during the return journey.

When Customer Services sent it to me, they filled in my name in the name field (in cursive script not block capitals) leaving the other fields blank. The covering letter said it was for my personal use, so presumably this was intended to stop me selling it or donating it to someone else.

Before starting the outward journey I filled in all the station and date fields in block capitals, using a pen that was obviously different from the Customer Services one.

This conductor claimed that this made the ticket invalid, because all the fields, including name, must be filled in at the same time to guard against fraudulent misuse. I explained why this was not possible and he eventually let me off when I started to extract the covering letter from my bag.

His parting shot was to scrawl an inverted V right across the ticket, although this did not cause any queries at inspections on subsequent legs of the journey home.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You have misunderstood my message, for part of the trip we will be using adult DRPTs and for the next part normal tickets (using a F & F R/C) so do you think that it could be a good idea to have proof of age? The lads not yet 14 but he is tall built like a bean pole, not like me.

If you have a tall child and intend to use a child ticket for them, proof of ID, while not required, is not a bad idea. Even in the 90s I used to carry my birth certificate.

 

[HSP 2]

You must look very young if you have to carry your birth certificate when your in your 90s!!!!

Could you please post as we're going on a day out and I

The stated rule is very clear - adults may not travel on child tickets. It doesn't say you can't the other way round.

They might, but they're not, and it's clearly stated.

But where at?

 

[MikeWh]

You must look very young if you have to carry your birth certificate when your in your 90s!!!!

Pretty sure he means the 1990s, when he was a child.

 

[HSP 2]

Pretty sure he means the 1990s, when he was a child.

I must remember not to make jokes.

I'm still waiting for a reply to a question. #31 I think.

 

[gray1404]

I had an altercation with a Northern conductor over one of these complimentary returns last week, during the return journey.

When Customer Services sent it to me, they filled in my name in the name field (in cursive script not block capitals) leaving the other fields blank. The covering letter said it was for my personal use, so presumably this was intended to stop me selling it or donating it to someone else.

Before starting the outward journey I filled in all the station and date fields in block capitals, using a pen that was obviously different from the Customer Services one.

This conductor claimed that this made the ticket invalid, because all the fields, including name, must be filled in at the same time to guard against fraudulent misuse. I explained why this was not possible and he eventually let me off when I started to extract the covering letter from my bag.

His parting shot was to scrawl an inverted V right across the ticket, although this did not cause any queries at inspections on subsequent legs of the journey home.

Did you also point out the case reference number on the reverse which was filled in by the same pen, by customer service?

Please do make a complaint about this. This is not acceptable conduct or treatment of a customer.

Which service did this happen on?

 

[Djgr]

I had an altercation with a Northern conductor over one of these complimentary returns last week, during the return journey.

When Customer Services sent it to me, they filled in my name in the name field (in cursive script not block capitals) leaving the other fields blank. The covering letter said it was for my personal use, so presumably this was intended to stop me selling it or donating it to someone else.

Before starting the outward journey I filled in all the station and date fields in block capitals, using a pen that was obviously different from the Customer Services one.

This conductor claimed that this made the ticket invalid, because all the fields, including name, must be filled in at the same time to guard against fraudulent misuse. I explained why this was not possible and he eventually let me off when I started to extract the covering letter from my bag.

His parting shot was to scrawl an inverted V right across the ticket, although this did not cause any queries at inspections on subsequent legs of the journey home.

Northern curse strikes again. Oh forgot, they're not mediocre just misunderstood.

 

[paddington]

I must remember not to make jokes. I'm still waiting for a reply to a question. #31 I think.

Not sure if I understand what you are getting at.

It was pointed out that condition 7 says "If this pass is marked 'CHILD' it is only valid if the holder is under 16 years of age."

There is no condition that says if the pass is marked ADULT it is only valid if the holder is over 16.

 

[sheff1]

When Customer Services sent it to me, they filled in my name in the name field (in cursive script not block capitals) leaving the other fields blank.
This conductor claimed that this made the ticket invalid, because all the fields, including name, must be filled in at the same time to guard against fraudulent misuse.

Did you also point out the case reference number on the reverse which was filled in by the same pen, by customer service?

CS have always written my name on the front but have not always put the case reference number on the back.
If the reference number space is blank I have never added it as Condition 5 (see post #25) does not state I have any responsibility to do so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You must look very young if you have to carry your birth certificate when your in your 90s!!!!

You know what I mean.

But where at?

On the ticket. There is a photograph of one upthread. It says if the ticket says CHILD it can only be used by someone under 16. It does not say that if the ticket does not say CHILD that it may not be used by someone under 16.

 

[gray1404]

Thankfully I have a pen that is very similar to the one that Northern have marked my comp tickets with my name with. I shall I shall use this to date my tickets so it looks the same if there are some rogue guards about creating issues.

It really does lack common sense creating such a fuss, if I passenger is bothered to go to the effort to claim delay repay following a delay then it stands to reason that customer may be more likely then others to make a complaint if they are given undue harassment during a journey.

 

[Greybeard33]

Did you also point out the case reference number on the reverse which was filled in by the same pen, by customer service?

Please do make a complaint about this. This is not acceptable conduct or treatment of a customer.

Which service did this happen on?

Not only the case reference number on the reverse, but the "Authorised by" signature and the "Adult" and "Return" boxes on the front of the ticket were evidently filled in using the same pen as the "Name" box. The pen I used to complete the remaining boxes was somewhat faint, which might perhaps have contributed to suspicion of fraud.

I have no intention of making a formal complaint, since the outcome of the incident was satisfactory from my point of view and I regard the matter as closed. I most certainly will not post information on a public forum that might enable the conductor to be identified. He was polite, if misinformed, and backed down when he realised he had a weak case. His conduct could not be construed as harassment.

As far as I was concerned this matter was closed. I only posted the details here as evidence that Northern conductors might have been briefed to look out for fraudulent use of these complimentary tickets. My ticket was closely examined by several other conductors during my two day trip, though none of them found fault with it. It is clearly important to fill in all the boxes before starting the journey, and it might be a wise precaution also to carry the covering letter from Customer Services.

Has OLR specifically confirmed that it will honour these tickets after 1st March? There are questions and answers on the OLR website that state:

Q: Will my ticket purchased for travel after 1 March still be valid?

Yes. All tickets purchased to travel on Northern services will remain valid for the dates shown on the ticket.

Q: I have travel vouchers from a previous refund. Will these be honoured by Northern Trains Limited?

Yes, you can still use your travel vouchers. They will remain valid up to their expiry date.

But technically a Northern-only Complimentary Travel Pass is not the same as a Rail Travel Voucher, which has a cash value and is used to purchase a conventional ticket before travel. Nor is the pass a ticket purchased for travel.

Since my passes were issued by Arriva Rail North Ltd., I thought it prudent to use them before the end of the Arriva franchise.

 

[HSP 2]

They might, but they're not, and it's clearly stated.

This was the post that I asked about but did not get a reply.
Until about #45.

In a part reply to post 44? I've just had a look through my collection of DLRT and I have at least 6 that only have the following boxes filled in. Adult, return and the authorised box filled in. On all of these the reference box is also not filled in.

More bad training?

 

[gray1404]

Your free ticket should not have been questioned in the first place. Customer Relations filled out all the part they are required to fill and you filled in the remainder. I have been pulled for not filling in my free tickets correctly when I have and it can be very stressful and shouldn't be happening. Those free tickets can be very difficult to fill out too and I am yet to find a consistent pen that is good for them.

Given the circumstances under which the free tickets have been issued and the reason for the franchise going to the OLR (and any appointed operator thereafter) as a sanction for unacceptable performance (being "taken back"), it would be unreasonable and unrealistic for customers to be expected to use them all up by the end of the month. I have had sight of a delay repay cover letter with a free ticket issued this week and received today (sent to a friend of mine) and there is no mention that it must be used by any given date. There is also no mention of this on the delay repay claim form online today when you select your payout method.

Furthermore, the "Northern" banding is what is mainly used on the free tickets, covering letters and the operation of trains - rather then "Arriva Northern" (or similar). So if anything the customer can expect business as usual with the same "Northern" banding continuing to be used. Any future operator might also just be called "Northern" using the same/similar branding.