Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

[scrapy]

Yeah, Hazel Grove isn't perticularly long, then there's the siding it goes into for a little while.

The airport trains are the ones that need the most length I think, the current 319's get super overcrowded, especially on weekends!

2*323s/3 car 331s will fit both platforms at Hazel Grove but will not fit the sidings or the platforms at Davenport and Woodsmoor. I suppose it would possible in the future (subject to pathing) to have 6 car to Stockport then portion worked with 3 cars to Macclesfield and 3 to Hazel Grove but this is likely to get messy on the way back with platforms blocked at Stockport.

 

[Amstel]

There are 2 sidings at Hazel Grove. How about a 3 coach set in each?

 

[Llama]

With suggestions like that, I suspect you work for Northern's planning department...

No way that can be done, not if you want any other train to run on that route.

Platforms are not permissive at Hazel Grove which prohibits signalled attaching & detaching movements.

Sidings are best part of quarter of a mile from the station. Not that it would ever pass a risk assessment but how far can a driver walk on ballast in an hour as well as splitting units, reattaching them, shunting both sets individually and changing ends, and also the time taken for the driver and signaller to agree line blockages for the up & down Hope Valley lines for all this to go on?

 

[Jozhua]

What would you do with the spare driving cars?

I would use those as well and form 2-carriage sets you could link together to make four.

 

[superkev]

I would use those as well and form 2-carriage sets you could link together to make four.

HaHa I think you may be a bit short of power as the centre cars contain the pantographs and transformers etc.
K

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

Again, like much of Northern's order, the question is why they ordered so many small trains. 3 car 331s, 2 car 195s...

I can see the argument that 3 car. 331 can become 6 cars as required (Aire/Wharfe) but surely a range of 4,5 and 6 cars would have at least allowed for growth. So many places getting a 3 car EMU (or a 2 car DMU!) locks in terrible capacity for the next wee while.

 

[507021]

I would use those as well and form 2-carriage sets you could link together to make four.

The driving cars don't have pantographs.

 

[Jozhua]

Again, like much of Northern's order, the question is why they ordered so many small trains. 3 car 331s, 2 car 195s...

I can see the argument that 3 car. 331 can become 6 cars as required (Aire/Wharfe) but surely a range of 4,5 and 6 cars would have at least allowed for growth. So many places getting a 3 car EMU (or a 2 car DMU!) locks in terrible capacity for the next wee while.

Yes, I agree, perhaps some extra centre cars on routes which require 4, but are too short for 6?

The driving cars don't have pantographs.

Oh dear...

 

[Meerkat]

2*323s/3 car 331s will fit both platforms at Hazel Grove but will not fit the sidings or the platforms at Davenport and Woodsmoor. I suppose it would possible in the future (subject to pathing) to have 6 car to Stockport then portion worked with 3 cars to Macclesfield and 3 to Hazel Grove but this is likely to get messy on the way back with platforms blocked at Stockport.

There used to be a siding south side of the line beyond the next bridge after Hazel Grove station, at least 200m available and an access point. Apart from being longer it would also seem operationally easier than the current sidings. Obviously it needs point work and extending electrification, including an over bridge.....

 

[Jozhua]

There used to be a siding south side of the line beyond the next bridge after Hazel Grove station, at least 200m available and an access point. Apart from being longer it would also seem operationally easier than the current sidings. Obviously it needs point work and extending electrification, including an over bridge.....

That would probably take a good decade or so, remember there needs to be an environmental review, community consultation and multiple cancellations by the DfT.

Unless some more 4 carriage 331's can make their way over, then 319's should probably stay...

 

[Meerkat]

That would probably take a good decade or so, remember there needs to be an environmental review, community consultation and multiple cancellations by the DfT.

Unless some more 4 carriage 331's can make their way over, then 319's should probably stay...

It shouldn’t take that long as it is still railway land??

 

[childwallblues]

Plenty of 331s on Liverpool services today. 331007 331013 and 331103 were on Blackpool North services until 331013 was swapped for 331111 on the 1536. 331013 then went on the 1545 to WGN. Others on WGN services were 331002 and 331009.
331014 was noted on training at Preston whilst 331017 was doing similar at Blackpool North.

 

[Bovverboy]

Plenty of 331s on Liverpool services today. 331007 331013 and 331103 were on Blackpool North services until 331013 was swapped for 331111 on the 1536. 331013 then went on the 1545 to WGN. Others on WGN services were 331002 and 331009.
331014 was noted on training at Preston whilst 331017 was doing similar at Blackpool North.

Do you know if 331111 was sent from Allerton to do the 1536? (1537 it is, actually).

 

[childwallblues]

Do you know if 331111 was sent from Allerton to do the 1536? (1537 it is, actually).

No a friend noted it at Crewe earlier on the 1101 from Piccadilly.

 

[Bovverboy]

Plenty of 331s on Liverpool services today. 331007 331013 and 331103 were on Blackpool North services until 331013 was swapped for 331111 on the 1536. 331013 then went on the 1545 to WGN. Others on WGN services were 331002 and 331009.
331014 was noted on training at Preston whilst 331017 was doing similar at Blackpool North.

Are you sure about the above? I can't see how 331111 could have finished up on the 1537 Blackpool without bringing a spare unit into play.

 

[Deerfold]

I caught my first couple of 331s recently, one each side of the Pennines.

The first was Manchester Airport to Picadilly. At Piccadilly the doors showed Not in Use for about 30 seconds after the service had stopped, but had not at the previous stop.

On the Shipley to Ilkley service I caught this happened at each stop.

The signs announcing which side the platforms are one seems useful but using the oddest phraseology I've come across.

"Platform exits to your right" (or left).

At Ilkley it was wrong.

 

[Llama]

The wonders of the Asdo system. It can only work automatically at stations on a standard two platform up & down unidirectional line, so I assume your train from Manchester Airport to Piccadilly stopped at an intermediate station on the Styal line where it should work automatically. At Piccadilly it needs the guard to override/bypass Asdo to 'SDO mode' because it doesn't know which side the doors will be released on, this takes a few seconds longer. Guards are supposed to know which stations they need to bypass it.

As for Ilkley, it's over 20 years since I last went up there, I assume theres not a 'usual' arrival platform, so if it got the side wrong perhaps either the system is set up for a preferred platform which wasn't the one you arrived on, or the driver input the platform info on approach (which we are trained not to do) and got it wrong.

 

[Deerfold]

The wonders of the Asdo system. It can only work automatically at stations on a standard two platform up & down unidirectional line, so I assume your train from Manchester Airport to Piccadilly stopped at an intermediate station on the Styal line where it should work automatically. At Piccadilly it needs the guard to override/bypass Asdo to 'SDO mode' because it doesn't know which side the doors will be released on, this takes a few seconds longer. Guards are supposed to know which stations they need to bypass it.

As for Ilkley, it's over 20 years since I last went up there, I assume theres not a 'usual' arrival platform, so if it got the side wrong perhaps either the system is set up for a preferred platform which wasn't the one you arrived on, or the driver input the platform info on approach (which we are trained not to do) and got it wrong.

I think there are usual platforms for any given train, but any train can use either platform.

Thanks.

The main problem I see is that people are getting used to the Door out of use signs coming on, so will ignore them when they're right

 

[Mr Mean]

I got a 331 for the first time today on the Leeds to Doncaster line. Quite impressed overall. The seats are hard but have decent legroom and they offer a light, bright cabin.

None of the PA systems were working though.

Very quick acceleration away from stations, much better than the 321s.

Thumbs up!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Perhaps we need a UK version of the buy American act to stop foreign predators buying and closing our manufacturers.

All that really does is prevent domestic manufacturers from remaining competitive globally, because they in theory have a captive market. This then pushes costs up for domestic fleets. Either that or you get foreign corporations forced to open manufacturing plants (which they receive state funding for) which only operate for a few years before being shuttered again.

 

[WYSH]

It still baffles me that northern went for 3/car and 4/car units. If the 3/car are going to be doubled up surely going for 4 and 6 car units would have made more sense

 

[JonathanH]

It still baffles me that northern went for 3/car and 4/car units. If the 3/car are going to be doubled up surely going for 4 and 6 car units would have made more sense

Having 3-car units allows shorter trains to run at off peak times and recognises that 3-car is sufficient on some services.

 

[XC victim]

Having 3-car units allows shorter trains to run at off peak times and recognises that 3-car is sufficient on some services.

strange that Northern haven’t advertised the capacity reductions on some services

 

[superkev]

It still baffles me that northern went for 3/car and 4/car units. If the 3/car are going to be doubled up surely going for 4 and 6 car units would have made more sense

Wasnt the original plan to use the 3 cars out of Leeds coupled at peak times to 6 cars. This was scuppered or heavily delayed by Network snails glacial progress with the platform 0 at Leeds.
Incidentally hows platform 0 going, I hear a couple of guys were actually working on it the other day.
K

 

[yorksrob]

Had one turn up on my commute for the first time this morning. Nice train, but as a 2-carriage version, not up to the 158 capacity wise.

Apologies - I hadn't realised this thread was for the electric version.

 

[Bantamzen]

Had one turn up on my commute for the first time this morning. Nice train, but as a 2-carriage version, not up to the 158 capacity wise.

Did you mean to put this into the 195 thread?

 

[yorksrob]

Did you mean to put this into the 195 thread?

Yes - I was looking for something like "New Northern DMU's" without success.

 

[Bantamzen]

Yes - I was looking for something like "New Northern DMU's" without success.

There's that many threads about new units it's understandable.

 

[yorksrob]

There's that many threads about new units it's understandable.

All of them with barely distinguishable numbers !

 

[Bovverboy]

As far as I'm aware, there are three threads currently on the go, concerned with 195s.

There's 'Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates', started as long ago as 2/4/16.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-class-195-construction-introduction-updates.128808/

The thread 'Northern Class 195: Initial Diagrams' was created 26/6/19.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-class-195-initial-diagrams.185017/

Finally I created the thread 'Northern 195 Diagrams' 5/10/19 in order to bring the current diagrams to the top of the said thread and thereby make them more accessible. It can be accessed by clicking on the 'signature' at the foot of any of my posts.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-195-diagrams.193088/