Northern Class 323 Diagrams

[Greybeard33]

The 331s are due to start entering service in December so if that goes to schedule they won't be needed much longer. They have slightly less capacity than 319s too. They are awkwardly placed between 319s and 331s. I like them and use them regularly but I can see why the rolling stock plan has not been revised. 2 classes of EMU for the north west is enough choice and complication. Keeping the class 323s over 319s would have meant a drop in capacity on many routes.

3-car 331s are a similar size to 323s. Both have 23m carriages. 4-car 319s, with their 20m carriages, are only 10m longer and have little more capacity because of the wasted space of the additional inter-car connection.

20m carriages suit the infrastructure in the SE but not platforms in the North. Arriva chose 319s because they were the only off-lease EMUs available at the time of the Northern bid.

On the Bolton line, 323s and 331s will be able to operate in 140m 6-car formations, whereas 319s will be restricted to 80m 4-car units because the platforms at Salford Crescent are not long enough for 8 cars and there is no room to extend them.

The 319's sluggish acceleration renders it unsuitable for the Stoke and Hadfield services.

Agreed Northern only needs two classes of EMU in the North West, but 331s + 323s would be a better combination than 331s + 319s.

 

[Thomas6187]

Here is a list of 323 diagrams. This is a overview and doesn't include the diagram Numbers

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5K50 07:10 Longsight Car. M.D Stockport 07:21
2K50 07:24 Stockport Macclesfield 07:46
2M62 07:49 Macclesfield Manchester Piccadilly 08:32
Stable at Manchester Piccadilly
2K50 17:21 Manchester Piccadilly Macclesfield 17:53
5K50 18:14 Macclesfield Stockport Car. M.D 18:41

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G40 05:00 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 05:11
5G40 05:20 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 05:40
2G40 05:45 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 06:25
2K14 06:32 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 07:31
2H81 07:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 08:53
2K10 09:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 10:41
2H84 10:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 11:52
2K16 12:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 13:41
2H87 13:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 14:52
2K12 15:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 16:41
2H80 16:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 17:52
2K18 18:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 19:41
2H83 19:58 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 20:57
2K14 21:43 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 22:41
5H14 22:54 Stoke-On-Trent Stockport Car. M.D 23:36

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G40 05:00 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 05:11
2G01 05:52 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 06:34
2G42 06:37 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 07:19
2G82 07:26 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 08:46
2G07 08:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 09:37
2G48 09:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 10:25
2G10 10:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 11:07
2G51 11:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 11:53
2G13 11:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 12:37
2G54 12:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 13:23
2G16 13:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 14:07
2G57 14:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 14:53
2G19 14:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 15:37
2G60 15:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 16:21
2G85 16:29 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 17:46
2G26 18:27 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 19:07
2G67 19:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 19:51
2G29 19:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 20:37
2G70 20:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 21:23
2G32 21:28 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 22:07
2G73 22:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 22:51
2K56 23:14 Manchester Piccadilly Macclesfield 23:45
5K56 23:50 Macclesfield Stockport Car. M.D 00:26

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G40 05:00 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 05:11
2G00 05:32 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 05:55
2G41 06:05 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 06:47
2G81 07:07 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 08:23
2G06 08:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 09:07
2G47 09:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 09:53
2G09 09:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 10:37
2G50 10:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 11:23
2G12 11:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 12:07
2G53 12:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 12:53
2G15 12:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 13:37
2G56 13:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 14:23
2G18 14:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 15:07
2G59 15:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 15:53
2G21 15:57 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 16:36
2G62 16:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 17:21
2G88 17:25 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 18:46
2G27 18:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 19:37
2G68 19:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 20:21
2G30 20:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 21:07
2G71 21:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 21:53
2G33 21:58 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 22:37
2G74 22:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 23:22
2G35 23:27 Manchester Piccadilly Glossop 00:04
5G34 00:10 Glossop Manchester Piccadilly 00:31
5G34 00:47 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 00:58

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5H01 05:41 Stockport Car. M.D Hazel Grove 06:06
2H01 06:11 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 06:29
2G80 06:47 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 08:04
5G83 09:09 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 09:19
5G86 16:12 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 16:23
2G89 17:40 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 19:01
5H89 19:24 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 19:34

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G02 06:05 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 06:16
5G83 07:42 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 09:03
5G83 09:09 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 09:19
5G86 16:12 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 16:23
2G86 16:41 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 18:01
2G90 18:05 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 19:21
2G28 19:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 20:07
2G69 20:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 20:51
2G31 20:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 21:37
2G72 21:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 22:22
2G34 22:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 23:07
5G32 23:11 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 23:30
5G32 23:36 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 23:46

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G02 06:05 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 06:16
2G02 06:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 07:05
2G43 07:08 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 07:51
2G84 08:02 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 09:24
2G08 09:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 10:07
2G49 10:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 10:53
2G11 10:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 11:37
2G52 11:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 12:23
2G14 12:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 13:07
2G55 13:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 13:53
2G17 13:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 14:37
2G58 14:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 15:23
2G20 15:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 16:07
2G61 16:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 16:53
2G87 17:04 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 18:28
5H87 18:39 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 18:50

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5H43 06:55 Stockport Car. M.D Alderley Edge 07:26
2H43 07:29 Alderley Edge Manchester Piccadilly 07:57
5H43 08:12 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 08:22

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G86 16:12 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 16:23
2G86 16:41 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 18:01
2G90 18:05 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 19:21
2G28 19:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 20:07
2G69 20:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 20:51
2G31 20:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 21:37
2G72 21:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 22:22
2G34 22:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 23:07
5G32 23:11 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 23:30
5G32 23:36 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 23:46

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5K12 05:13 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 05:24
2K12 05:38 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 06:35
2H80 06:58 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 07:53
2K18 08:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 09:41
2H83 09:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 10:52
2K14 11:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 12:41
2H86 12:58 Stoke-On-Trent #NAME? 13:54
2K10 14:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 15:41
2H89 15:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 16:52
2K16 17:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 18:41
2H82 18:58 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 19:54
2K12 20:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 21:41
2H67 22:20 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 23:28
2K38 23:38 Manchester Picadilly Crewe 00:32
2A49 00:44 Crewe via MIA Manchester Piccadilly 01:28
5A94 01:35 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 01:45

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5K10 05:29 Stockport Car. M.D Macclesfield 05:53
2K10 06:00 Macclesfield Stoke-On-Trent 06:23
2M61 06:29 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 07:30
2K16 07:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 08:40
2H82 08:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 09:53
2K12 10:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 11:41
2H85 11:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 12:53
2K18 13:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 14:41
2H88 14:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 15:52
2K14 16:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 17:41
2H81 17:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 18:53
2K10 19:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 20:41
2H84 20:58 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 21:58
2K55 22:18 Manchester Piccadilly Macclesfield 22:52
5H55 23:06 Macclesfield Longsight Car. M.D 23:39

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5H89 04:54 Longsight Car. M.D Kidsgrove 05:48
5H89 05:54 Kidsgrove Macclesfield 06:06
2H89 06:17 Macclesfield Manchester Piccadilly 06:54
2K31 07:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 08:03
2F27 08:17 Crewe via MIA Liverpool Lime Street 10:30
2F30 11:00 Liverpool Lime Street Warrington Bank Quay 11:44
2F37 12:12 Warrington Bank Quay Liverpool Lime Street 12:55
2A99 13:28 Liverpool Lime Street Crewe Via MIA 15:42
2H40 15:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 16:43
2B20 17:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 17:45
2H06 18:21 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 18:40
2K33 19:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 20:00
5H45 20:02 Crewe Via CET Sdgs Crewe 20:44
2H45 20:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 21:43
2B88 22:22 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 22:54
2H12 23:08 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 23:35
5H12 23:45 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 23:55

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5H40 05:06 Longsight Car. M.D Crewe 05:40
2H40 05:44 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 06:44
2B81 06:51 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 07:13
2H03 07:21 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccdilly 07:40
2K32 08:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 09:02
2F31 09:17 Crewe Via MIA Liverpool Lime Street 11:30
2F32 12:00 Liverpool Lime Street Warrington Bank Quay 12:44
2F11 13:12 Warrington Bank Quay Liverpool Lime Street 13:53
2A90 14:28 Liverpool Lime Street Crewe Via MIA 16:42
2H41 16:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 17;43
2B82 18:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 18:45
2H08 19:08 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccdilly 19:36
2K34 20:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 21:00
5H46 21:02 Crewe Via CET Sdgs Crewe 21:44
2H46 21:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 22:43
2B89 23:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 23:45
5H00 23:50 Hazel Grove Stockport Car. M.D 00:08

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
2A90 05:19 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe Via MIA 06:23
2H41 06:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 07:43
2B84 08:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 08:45
2H07 09:21 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 09:40
2K34 10:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 11:00
2F39 11:17 Crewe Via MIA Liverpool Lime Street 13:30
2F36 14:00 Liverpool Lime Street Warrington Bank Quay 14:44
2F19 15:12 Warrington Bank Quay Liverpool Lime Street 15:54
2A92 16:28 Liverpool Lime Street Crewe Via MIA 18:42
2H43 18:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 19:39
2B86 20:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 20:45
2H10 21:25 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 21:46
2K36 22:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 22:57
2H47 23:12 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 00:06
5A94 01:35 Manchester Picadilly Longsight Car. M.D 01:45

 

[Chester1]

3-car 331s are a similar size to 323s. Both have 23m carriages. 4-car 319s, with their 20m carriages, are only 10m longer and have little more capacity because of the wasted space of the additional inter-car connection.

20m carriages suit the infrastructure in the SE but not platforms in the North. Arriva chose 319s because they were the only off-lease EMUs available at the time of the Northern bid.

On the Bolton line, 323s and 331s will be able to operate in 140m 6-car formations, whereas 319s will be restricted to 80m 4-car units because the platforms at Salford Crescent are not long enough for 8 cars and there is no room to extend them.

The 319's sluggish acceleration renders it unsuitable for the Stoke and Hadfield services.

Agreed Northern only needs two classes of EMU in the North West, but 331s + 323s would be a better combination than 331s + 319s.

12 of the 331s will be 4 coach sets. The extra inter coach connection does not take up anything close to 11m. 319s have approximately 315 seats vs 284 of 323s, which is important on crowded services. I agree that Salford Crescent and Oxford Road are an issues but there are plenty of platforms that are shorter than 138m anyway. If the 769s actually arrive then it makes sense to keep the 319s.

 

[chefchenko]

They're the only things Northern can run between Manchester and Stoke as nothing else can keep to time.

If they do put anything different on then it won't go further south than Macclesfield, even if it's timetabled to go further.

Is that right ??? I know the manc - Bristol voyager is up its chuff as the stopper arrives into stoke, though that may be a bit behind now it stops at macc ?? Only 323s fit in Stokes bay platform aswell

 

[mic505]

Have all the Alderley Edge-Manchester Oxford Road diagrams still in the hands of the 323's or some 319's?

 

[PHILIPE]

Have all the Alderley Edge-Manchester Oxford Road diagrams still in the hands of the 323's or some 319's?

They run to and from Wigan now with part of the journey over non-electrified lines

 

[Greybeard33]

12 of the 331s will be 4 coach sets. The extra inter coach connection does not take up anything close to 11m. 319s have approximately 315 seats vs 284 of 323s, which is important on crowded services. I agree that Salford Crescent and Oxford Road are an issues but there are plenty of platforms that are shorter than 138m anyway. If the 769s actually arrive then it makes sense to keep the 319s.

Yes, 12 of the 331s will be 4-car, but the other 31 will be 3-car like the 323s. Many of these will be deployed in the North West.

323s are actually 70.2m long (3*23.4m), not 69m, only 12% shorter than a 319. Seating capacity does of course depend on the layout and seat pitch. Fewer seats can mean more space for standees. 3-car 331s are 71.4m long but will have only 204 seats.

I believe the platforms at Adlington and Blackrod are being lengthened to ~144m, so that all of the stations on the Chorley line will be able to accommodate 6-car 331 or 323 sets. The 95m 4-car 331s (18% longer than a 319) will give added flexibility to match capacity to demand.

 

[jamesst]

Here is a list of 323 diagrams. This is a overview and doesn't include the diagram Numbers

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5K50 07:10 Longsight Car. M.D Stockport 07:21
2K50 07:24 Stockport Macclesfield 07:46
2M62 07:49 Macclesfield Manchester Piccadilly 08:32
Stable at Manchester Piccadilly
2K50 17:21 Manchester Piccadilly Macclesfield 17:53
5K50 18:14 Macclesfield Stockport Car. M.D 18:41

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G40 05:00 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 05:11
5G40 05:20 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 05:40
2G40 05:45 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 06:25
2K14 06:32 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 07:31
2H81 07:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 08:53
2K10 09:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 10:41
2H84 10:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 11:52
2K16 12:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 13:41
2H87 13:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 14:52
2K12 15:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 16:41
2H80 16:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 17:52
2K18 18:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 19:41
2H83 19:58 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 20:57
2K14 21:43 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 22:41
5H14 22:54 Stoke-On-Trent Stockport Car. M.D 23:36

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G40 05:00 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 05:11
2G01 05:52 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 06:34
2G42 06:37 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 07:19
2G82 07:26 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 08:46
2G07 08:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 09:37
2G48 09:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 10:25
2G10 10:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 11:07
2G51 11:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 11:53
2G13 11:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 12:37
2G54 12:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 13:23
2G16 13:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 14:07
2G57 14:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 14:53
2G19 14:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 15:37
2G60 15:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 16:21
2G85 16:29 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 17:46
2G26 18:27 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 19:07
2G67 19:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 19:51
2G29 19:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 20:37
2G70 20:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 21:23
2G32 21:28 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 22:07
2G73 22:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 22:51
2K56 23:14 Manchester Piccadilly Macclesfield 23:45
5K56 23:50 Macclesfield Stockport Car. M.D 00:26

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G40 05:00 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 05:11
2G00 05:32 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 05:55
2G41 06:05 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 06:47
2G81 07:07 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 08:23
2G06 08:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 09:07
2G47 09:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 09:53
2G09 09:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 10:37
2G50 10:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 11:23
2G12 11:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 12:07
2G53 12:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 12:53
2G15 12:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 13:37
2G56 13:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 14:23
2G18 14:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 15:07
2G59 15:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 15:53
2G21 15:57 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 16:36
2G62 16:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 17:21
2G88 17:25 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 18:46
2G27 18:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 19:37
2G68 19:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 20:21
2G30 20:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 21:07
2G71 21:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 21:53
2G33 21:58 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 22:37
2G74 22:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 23:22
2G35 23:27 Manchester Piccadilly Glossop 00:04
5G34 00:10 Glossop Manchester Piccadilly 00:31
5G34 00:47 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 00:58

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5H01 05:41 Stockport Car. M.D Hazel Grove 06:06
2H01 06:11 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 06:29
2G80 06:47 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 08:04
5G83 09:09 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 09:19
5G86 16:12 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 16:23
2G89 17:40 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 19:01
5H89 19:24 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 19:34

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G02 06:05 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 06:16
5G83 07:42 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 09:03
5G83 09:09 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 09:19
5G86 16:12 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 16:23
2G86 16:41 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 18:01
2G90 18:05 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 19:21
2G28 19:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 20:07
2G69 20:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 20:51
2G31 20:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 21:37
2G72 21:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 22:22
2G34 22:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 23:07
5G32 23:11 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 23:30
5G32 23:36 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 23:46

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G02 06:05 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 06:16
2G02 06:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 07:05
2G43 07:08 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 07:51
2G84 08:02 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 09:24
2G08 09:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 10:07
2G49 10:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 10:53
2G11 10:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 11:37
2G52 11:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 12:23
2G14 12:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 13:07
2G55 13:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 13:53
2G17 13:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 14:37
2G58 14:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 15:23
2G20 15:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 16:07
2G61 16:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 16:53
2G87 17:04 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 18:28
5H87 18:39 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 18:50

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5H43 06:55 Stockport Car. M.D Alderley Edge 07:26
2H43 07:29 Alderley Edge Manchester Piccadilly 07:57
5H43 08:12 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 08:22

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5G86 16:12 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 16:23
2G86 16:41 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 18:01
2G90 18:05 Manchester Piccadilly Manchester Piccadilly 19:21
2G28 19:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 20:07
2G69 20:10 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 20:51
2G31 20:59 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 21:37
2G72 21:40 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 22:22
2G34 22:29 Manchester Piccadilly Hadfield 23:07
5G32 23:11 Hadfield Manchester Piccadilly 23:30
5G32 23:36 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 23:46

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5K12 05:13 Longsight Car. M.D Manchester Piccadilly 05:24
2K12 05:38 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 06:35
2H80 06:58 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 07:53
2K18 08:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 09:41
2H83 09:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 10:52
2K14 11:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 12:41
2H86 12:58 Stoke-On-Trent #NAME? 13:54
2K10 14:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 15:41
2H89 15:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 16:52
2K16 17:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 18:41
2H82 18:58 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 19:54
2K12 20:44 Manchester Picadilly Stoke-On-Trent 21:41
2H67 22:20 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadilly 23:28
2K38 23:38 Manchester Picadilly Crewe 00:32
2A49 00:44 Crewe via MIA Manchester Piccadilly 01:28
5A94 01:35 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 01:45

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5K10 05:29 Stockport Car. M.D Macclesfield 05:53
2K10 06:00 Macclesfield Stoke-On-Trent 06:23
2M61 06:29 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 07:30
2K16 07:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 08:40
2H82 08:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 09:53
2K12 10:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 11:41
2H85 11:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 12:53
2K18 13:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 14:41
2H88 14:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 15:52
2K14 16:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 17:41
2H81 17:56 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 18:53
2K10 19:44 Manchester Piccadilly Stoke-On-Trent 20:41
2H84 20:58 Stoke-On-Trent Manchester Piccadily 21:58
2K55 22:18 Manchester Piccadilly Macclesfield 22:52
5H55 23:06 Macclesfield Longsight Car. M.D 23:39

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5H89 04:54 Longsight Car. M.D Kidsgrove 05:48
5H89 05:54 Kidsgrove Macclesfield 06:06
2H89 06:17 Macclesfield Manchester Piccadilly 06:54
2K31 07:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 08:03
2F27 08:17 Crewe via MIA Liverpool Lime Street 10:30
2F30 11:00 Liverpool Lime Street Warrington Bank Quay 11:44
2F37 12:12 Warrington Bank Quay Liverpool Lime Street 12:55
2A99 13:28 Liverpool Lime Street Crewe Via MIA 15:42
2H40 15:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 16:43
2B20 17:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 17:45
2H06 18:21 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 18:40
2K33 19:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 20:00
5H45 20:02 Crewe Via CET Sdgs Crewe 20:44
2H45 20:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 21:43
2B88 22:22 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 22:54
2H12 23:08 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 23:35
5H12 23:45 Manchester Piccadilly Longsight Car. M.D 23:55

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
5H40 05:06 Longsight Car. M.D Crewe 05:40
2H40 05:44 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 06:44
2B81 06:51 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 07:13
2H03 07:21 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccdilly 07:40
2K32 08:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 09:02
2F31 09:17 Crewe Via MIA Liverpool Lime Street 11:30
2F32 12:00 Liverpool Lime Street Warrington Bank Quay 12:44
2F11 13:12 Warrington Bank Quay Liverpool Lime Street 13:53
2A90 14:28 Liverpool Lime Street Crewe Via MIA 16:42
2H41 16:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 17;43
2B82 18:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 18:45
2H08 19:08 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccdilly 19:36
2K34 20:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 21:00
5H46 21:02 Crewe Via CET Sdgs Crewe 21:44
2H46 21:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 22:43
2B89 23:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 23:45
5H00 23:50 Hazel Grove Stockport Car. M.D 00:08

Headcode DEP Origin Destination ARR
2A90 05:19 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe Via MIA 06:23
2H41 06:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 07:43
2B84 08:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 08:45
2H07 09:21 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 09:40
2K34 10:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 11:00
2F39 11:17 Crewe Via MIA Liverpool Lime Street 13:30
2F36 14:00 Liverpool Lime Street Warrington Bank Quay 14:44
2F19 15:12 Warrington Bank Quay Liverpool Lime Street 15:54
2A92 16:28 Liverpool Lime Street Crewe Via MIA 18:42
2H43 18:48 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 19:39
2B86 20:24 Manchester Piccadilly Hazel Grove 20:45
2H10 21:25 Hazel Grove Manchester Piccadilly 21:46
2K36 22:01 Manchester Piccadilly Crewe 22:57
2H47 23:12 Crewe Manchester Piccadilly 00:06
5A94 01:35 Manchester Picadilly Longsight Car. M.D 01:45

It's no wonder delays can spread so quickly across the Northern network with some of the involved diagrams listed there

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It's no wonder delays can spread so quickly across the Northern network with some of the involved diagrams listed there

The only tight diagrams are those covering Hadfields which are not mixed up with other routes. Yes there are 6 minute (timetabled) turnrounds at Crewe but the remainder of those diagrams are not the least bit tight. Methinks you are in the Chat-Moss-locals-should-not-go-east-of-Manchester camp.

 

[geoffk]

Is that right ??? I know the manc - Bristol voyager is up its chuff as the stopper arrives into stoke, though that may be a bit behind now it stops at macc ?? Only 323s fit in Stokes bay platform aswell

The Blackpool N - Bolton - Mcr Picc service is due to be extended to Macclesfield at some stage so 323s may be used on this. I heard a rumour of a Preston - Stoke service, any truth in that? Surely there's a limit to the number of cross-Manchester services.

 

[northwichcat]

The Blackpool N - Bolton - Mcr Picc service is due to be extended to Macclesfield at some stage so 323s may be used on this. I heard a rumour of a Preston - Stoke service, any truth in that? Surely there's a limit to the number of cross-Manchester services.

The proposal was hourly Macclesfield to Blackpool service with an odd peak time service extending to Stoke. Unless Alderley Edge to Wigan is dropped I can't see how Stoke to Preston would fit in, even if it would mean Stockport to Bolton to Preston services would be more evenly spaced.

 

[geoffk]

Had a trip on a 323 today from East Didsbury to Earlestown. At least two of the diagrams shown above were worked by 323s but I didn't see the third one. Unfortunately we were checked after Oxford Road by a late-running TPE so lost some time to Newton. A staff member told me there were two 195s and two 331s at Edge Hill for driver training. Are these visible from either line?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Had a trip on a 323 today from East Didsbury to Earlestown. At least two of the diagrams shown above were worked by 323s but I didn't see the third one. Unfortunately we were checked after Oxford Road by a late-running TPE so lost some time to Newton. A staff member told me there were two 195s and two 331s at Edge Hill for driver training. Are these visible from either line?

I saw one of them poking out of a shed last week.
This was on the sharp curve at Wavertree from the south, approaching Edge Hill station.
I don't think anything is visible from the L&M route, as the old gridiron flyover stub is in the way.

 

[CAF397]

The 319's sluggish acceleration renders it unsuitable for the Stoke and Hadfield services.

I was of the impression that a 319 is sluggish at accelerating until I had the opportunity to ‘chase’ one down. In a Class 350 departing Preston on the fast, just behind a 319 departing on the slow. As the 319 accelerated off the 20mph TSR up to the line speed of 75mph the Class 350 I was on (which are really fast at accelerating at low speeds) could not make any ground up on the 319 until the said 319 reached its line limit of 75mph. It surprised me.

I think it is more of a case of a 323 being like s**t off a shovel, rather than a 319 being sluggish.

 

[323235]

I can't believe a Class 319 would out pace a 350 unless the 350 was being driven cautiously or under regulation.

 

[Starmill]

Thanks a lot @Thomas6187

 

[CAF397]

I can't believe a Class 319 would out pace a 350 unless the 350 was being driven cautiously or under regulation.

Like I said, I couldn’t believe it and I was the one looking at it!. The 319 was opening up off the 20mph TSR to 75mph, the 350 was on a 35mph PSR opening up to 110mph. Both trains had greens, the railhead was dry.

The back of the 319 was already about 4 coaches in front of the 350, and any initial ground made up by the 350 initially being slightly faster (35 vice 20) was soon cancelled out. Both trains accelerated at the same rate, the 319 keeping the same distance ahead of the 350 until the 319 reached 75mph (it would’ve been braking for Leyland soon afterwards).

 

[agbrs_Jack]

The proposal was hourly Macclesfield to Blackpool service with an odd peak time service extending to Stoke. Unless Alderley Edge to Wigan is dropped I can't see how Stoke to Preston would fit in, even if it would mean Stockport to Bolton to Preston services would be more evenly spaced.

The original May 2018 timetable had the 0629 SOT-MAN extended to Blackpool North 7 days a week. It also involved an evening peak extension to one of the BNP-MAC stoppers to Congleton, Kidsgrove (I believe optionally) and Stoke.
The other major change was the intended hourly Sunday service BPN-SOT (and rtn) which would've benefit stations south of Macclesfield (Ahem Congleton) a great deal. I somewhat doubt I'll see any hourly Sunday services south of Macclesfield before May or even Dec 2019

 

[chefchenko]

The original May 2018 timetable had the 0629 SOT-MAN extended to Blackpool North 7 days a week. It also involved an evening peak extension to one of the BNP-MAC stoppers to Congleton, Kidsgrove (I believe optionally) and Stoke.
The other major change was the intended hourly Sunday service BPN-SOT (and rtn) which would've benefit stations south of Macclesfield (Ahem Congleton) a great deal. I somewhat doubt I'll see any hourly Sunday services south of Macclesfield before May or even Dec 2019

Congleton is always overlooked , but it’s in a kind of no mans land , Macclesfield is the historic boundary of the Manchester commuter belt or GMPTE back in the day and kidsgrove the next station and much less used than congleton has the Crewe - stoke and beyond trains , leaving congy stuck in the middle

 

[geoffk]

I saw one of them poking out of a shed last week.
This was on the sharp curve at Wavertree from the south, approaching Edge Hill station.
I don't think anything is visible from the L&M route, as the old gridiron flyover stub is in the way.

Came past Edge Hill today but no new trains were visible from the Crewe line. There were at least five 319s and a 323 at Allerton at 14.30 and a 323 came past the train I was on near Garswood heading north - this must have been 5L90 Allerton - Preston.