Northern Class 195: Initial Diagrams

[geoffk]

Saw a 3-car 195 pulling out of Chorley this evening at about 17:35, northbound.
Didn't realise we'd be getting 195s on this line (expecting to be getting 331s at some point though).

This would have been the 1634 MIA to Barrow, which goes via Bolton.

 

[Jozhua]

Saw another thread mention that Leeds-Notts is one of the connect routes and is getting 195's?

Wasn't expecting to see them that far south! Might see if I can think of an excuse to use it if that's the case, doubt I'll see any other new trains on the routes I use.

 

[Mogster]

This would have been the 1634 MIA to Barrow, which goes via Bolton.

Anyone got any idea why that particular service goes via Bolton while all the others are via Wigan?

 

[Bovverboy]

Afraid I can't tell you why that service goes via Bolton, but it's not the only Barrow/Windermere to do so. I believe the full list to be as follows.

1035 Su Airport to Barrow (calls Salford Crescent, Lostock, Chorley)
1047 Su Barrow to Airport (calls Chorley, Bolton, Salford Crescent)
1634 NSSu Airport to Barrow (calls Bolton, Chorley)
1934 SO Barrow to Airport (non-stop Preston to Oxford Road)
1943 NSSu Barrow to Airport (non-stop Preston to Oxford Road)

EDIT: An additional journey via Bolton is (w.e.f. 12/8/19) 2234 Manchester Airport to Blackpool North (NSu).
There is also a late ECS working, Preston to Newton Heath, which also goes via Bolton, and it may have been running a while.
There may be other workings via Bolton, I haven't scrutinized the new diagrams too closely yet.

 

[Bovverboy]

The following 195s are known to have been in service today. Diagrams as designated by mikemcniven on post 116 of this thread.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/48204666971/

Circuit 1: 195116
Circuit 2: 195118
Circuit 3: Not known*
Circuit 4: 195114
Circuit 5: 195115
Circuit 6: 195119

* The last round trip on this diagram, 1645 Barrow to the Airport and 1929 return, missed completely (staff unavailability). It is most unusual for complete journeys to be missed, usually only half a journey at a time misses (either up to Preston, or beyond Preston).
The only other mileage to have been missed today appears to have been Oxford Road - Airport - Oxford Road, 1046 ex-Barrow terminated there (41L), 1329 ex-Airport started there. The southbound journey was held at Preston for 35 minutes, believed waiting for a crew member.

The third diagram on Airport - Liverpool, which has recently (on Saturdays) usually been a 195, was, this afternoon, being covered by 156452 - presumably this was the unit which finished up on Circuit 6 last night.

 

[HotelNovember]

* The last round trip on this diagram, 1645 Barrow to the Airport and 1929 return, missed completely (staff unavailability). It is most unusual for complete journeys to be missed, usually only half a journey at a time misses (either up to Preston, or beyond Preston).

Combination of no driver/guard, hence why it couldn’t run ECS to any point.

Wigan Driver drives it - Barrow-Man Oxford Road, then a Liverpool Driver - Oxford Road-Airport-Oxford Road, then a Wigan Driver Oxford Road-Preston then a Barrow Driver.

Wigan guard Barrow-Preston, then a Barrow guard for the round trip back to Barrow.

 

[scrapy]

Combination of no driver/guard, hence why it couldn’t run ECS to any point.

Wigan Driver drives it - Barrow-Man Oxford Road, then a Liverpool Driver - Oxford Road-Airport-Oxford Road, then a Wigan Driver Oxford Road-Preston then a Barrow Driver.

Wigan guard Barrow-Preston, then a Barrow guard for the round trip back to Barrow.

No driver to take it back to Barrow from Preston so decision made to cancel it throughout as it needed to be back at Barrow.

 

[Bovverboy]

As seems to be an unfortunate habit, it's been a bit of a shaky start this morning to the Barrow/Windermere services. The stock for the 0833 Airport - Windermere and 0935 Airport - Barrow, which is scheduled to come ECS from Newton Heath (0728 therefrom) didn't actually depart until 0813, so the formation was terminated short at Oxford Road at 0833. (Still time for the 0833 ex-Airport to leave Ox Rd RT at 0856, and for the second set to get to the Airport for 0935?) Anyway, what should have been the 0833 from the Airport actually left Ox Rd at 0927 (31L); the scheduled 0935 ex-Airport left Ox Rd RT at 0956.

The 1047 Barrow - Airport is apparently being started at Preston, reason given on Northern's Journey Check as driver shortage. However, the 0912 Preston - Airport appears to have operated okay, so there shouldn't now be a spare unit at Preston, and there's no obvious ECS moves showing. So it will be interesting to see what turns up on the 1334 ex-Airport.

EDIT: It looks as though the stock is being sourced from the duty which goes ECS to Lancaster to then do 1313 Lancaster to Carlisle, which is being cancelled.

 

[northernchris]

Saw another thread mention that Leeds-Notts is one of the connect routes and is getting 195's?

Wasn't expecting to see them that far south! Might see if I can think of an excuse to use it if that's the case, doubt I'll see any other new trains on the routes I use.

I also thought this, but looking at what has been loaded so far for the December timetable change the Nottingham is still going via Barnsley interworking with the Lincoln service so this may not be the case

 

[Jamesrob637]

Something's up with the Liverpool to Manchester Airport as Journey Check is showing 2 cars instead of 3

 

[scrapy]

All Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Warringtons, all Windermeres and almost all Barrow to Manchester Airport are to be 195 operated from 12th August, as 4 more diagrams added.

158s from Barrow to go on Southport to Leeds.

 

[Boysteve]

Something's up with the Liverpool to Manchester Airport as Journey Check is showing 2 cars instead of 3

Well Circuit 7 is missing, but circuits 5 and 6 appear to be operating normally. The non-195 Liverpool - Man Airport diagram is a 4-car 150 today instead of the scheduled 4-car 156. Plenty of 156's are available however and they can be found on the stoppers some running as 4-car 156s!!! #randomunitgenerator

UPDATE, Circuit 5 has been replaced with a 2-car 156 for 1H45 and 1F96. The earlier parts of Circuit 5 however were 195 operated.

 

[Bovverboy]

Well Circuit 7 is missing, but circuits 5 and 6 appear to be operating normally.

I was initially a bit dubious about Circuit 7 being missing, since a 195 continuing on Circuit 6 into the evening (as it is doing today - 195119) usually means Circuit 7 has doubled up with Circuit 6 as scheduled - because one unit needs to be sent ECS to Preston Croft Street sidings. However, I see that, tonight, the unit which was sent to Preston came, not straight out of service, but from Allerton.

UPDATE, Circuit 5 has been replaced with a 2-car 156 for 1H45 and 1F96. The earlier parts of Circuit 5 however were 195 operated.

Are you sure about this, Boysteve? I saw 156427 on the 1850 ex-Airport.

 

[HotelNovember]

Well Circuit 7 is missing, but circuits 5 and 6 appear to be operating normally. The non-195 Liverpool - Man Airport diagram is a 4-car 150 today instead of the scheduled 4-car 156. Plenty of 156's are available however and they can be found on the stoppers some running as 4-car 156s!!! #randomunitgenerator

UPDATE, Circuit 5 has been replaced with a 2-car 156 for 1H45 and 1F96. The earlier parts of Circuit 5 however were 195 operated.

The non-195 diagram is booked a 150+156.

 

[Bertie the bus]

All Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Warringtons, all Windermeres and almost all Barrow to Manchester Airport are to be 195 operated from 12th August, as 4 more diagrams added.

158s from Barrow to go on Southport to Leeds.

That's not massively different to now is it? I thought there was only 1 158 Barrow diagram as it is.

 

[Boysteve]

Are you sure about this, Boysteve? I saw 156427 on the 1850 ex-Airport.[/QUOTE]

Ah! I saw a 195 on this diagram middle of the day, I only noticed it became a 156 after you!

The non-195 diagram is booked a 150+156.

It might be planned this way, but in reality it was a 4-car 150 today. It looked to be a gangwayed 150 and a non-gangwayed 150 together.

 

[Bovverboy]

The non-195 diagram is booked a 150+156.

In reality it can be 150+156, single 156, double 150, or double 156. I haven't seen a single 150 on it recently, or a Pacer.

 

[Bovverboy]

All Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Warringtons, all Windermeres and almost all Barrow to Manchester Airport are to be 195 operated from 12th August, as 4 more diagrams added.

158s from Barrow to go on Southport to Leeds.

That's not massively different to now is it? I thought there was only 1 158 Barrow diagram as it is.

Seven units are required to maintain the basic Airport to Barrow/Windermere circuit. (That doesn't include units which never come south of Lancaster.) (EDIT: Or an afternoon Preston to Carlisle journey).
On Mondays to Saturdays, to the best of my knowledge, the starting points are Barrow Carriage Sidings (four units), Preston Croft Street Sidings (one unit), Blackpool North CMD (one unit), and Newton Heath T&RSMD (one unit). Sundays the one supplied from Blackpool North in the week is replaced by a second from Newton Heath.
Three of the Barrow starts and the one Preston start are booked for 195s. All the others are booked for 156s and 158s, I don't know in what proportion, but I haven't known a day recently when there hasn't been at least one 156 out, often two.

By my reckoning a further four 195 diagrams should be sufficient to run Airport to Liverpool/Windermere/Barrow entirely with 195s.

 

[Bertie the bus]

By my reckoning a further four 195 diagrams should be sufficient to run Airport to Liverpool/Windermere/Barrow entirely with 195s.

As I said, not much different to now. If that is it - 4 additional diagrams - I'm not sure where these 10 Pacers to be withdrawn are coming from.

 

[Mathew S]

158s from Barrow to go on Southport to Leeds

That's going to be one heck of a step up in quality for that route. Is the plan, then, that the Leeds service will be 158 operated when, from December, it starts from Wigan rather than Southport?

 

[scrapy]

That's going to be one heck of a step up in quality for that route. Is the plan, then, that the Leeds service will be 158 operated when, from December, it starts from Wigan rather than Southport?

Not sure about December, it will run Wigan to Leeds so I assume this will have 158s on it. I just know 158s will start appearing on Southport to Leeds from next week with more diagrams from 9th September.

 

[Bovverboy]

According to Northern's 'Journey Check', today's 1129 Airport to Windermere and 1829 Airport to Barrow (and related journeys) are formed of three coaches instead of two. This implies that a 195 is operating a 'non-195' diagram, and, indeed, we haven't got either of those journeys marked as booked for a 195, or any record, to my knowledge, of any 195 having previously operated the said diagram. I don't know whether this is additional to the normal 195 diagrams being 195 formed, or whether it's in lieu of one being so formed.

 

[Jamesrob637]

According to Northern's 'Journey Check', today's 1129 Airport to Windermere and 1829 Airport to Barrow (and related journeys) are formed of three coaches instead of two. This implies that a 195 is operating a 'non-195' diagram, and, indeed, we haven't got either of those journeys marked as booked for a 195, or any record, to my knowledge, of any 195 having previously operated the said diagram. I don't know whether this is additional to the normal 195 diagrams being 195 formed, or whether it's in lieu of one being so formed.

Always good to see diagrams formed of more coaches than planned albeit only one! I see some 4 vice 3 at times on electric services but I'm guessing this is where a 319 has stepped in on a 323 diagram.

 

[Bovverboy]

According to Northern's 'Journey Check', today's 1129 Airport to Windermere and 1829 Airport to Barrow (and related journeys) are formed of three coaches instead of two. This implies that a 195 is operating a 'non-195' diagram, and, indeed, we haven't got either of those journeys marked as booked for a 195, or any record, to my knowledge, of any 195 having previously operated the said diagram. I don't know whether this is additional to the normal 195 diagrams being 195 formed, or whether it's in lieu of one being so formed.

Ha ha, it wasn't a 195 after all, it was a 3-car 158 (754). Nevertheless, there was a 195 missing from one of the regular 195 diagrams, 156454 was on the 1729 Airport - Windermere.

 

[Bovverboy]

All the usual 195 diagrams on Barrow/Windermere were covered by 195s this afternoon/evening, although one did miss Wigan - Airport - Preston by virtue of a passenger having been taken ill. Diagrams 5 & 6 on Airports have also been 195s, the only thing which was scheduled but didn't happen was the addition of the Diagram 7 unit to the Diagram 6 in the afternoon peak.
Funny thing, according to RTT, the Diagram 7 unit was sat all day at the buffer stops on P8 at Lime Street, but Diagram 6 didn't couple up to it at 1516. Fact is, it didn't do anything else, either, until 1549, when it set off for the Airport 33L. Anyone know the story?
Surprisingly (to me), despite its lateness, it still continued to the Airport.

 

[86247]

since they came into service I've only once seen the 15.16 to the airport double up most of the time it's a single 195

 

[eastwestdivide]

Saw another thread mention that Leeds-Notts is one of the connect routes and is getting 195's?

Wasn't expecting to see them that far south! Might see if I can think of an excuse to use it if that's the case, doubt I'll see any other new trains on the routes I use.

Think you're right that it's a Connect route - whether it gets 195s or not I don't know.
A year or so back, when the first 170s came to Northern, they were doing training runs with the 170s to Sheffield and Nottingham (see this link: Northern Class 170's)

 

[Bovverboy]

since they came into service I've only once seen the 15.16 to the airport double up most of the time it's a single 195

It was a double on Wednesday, but I think I'd have to say I've seen it more often as a single.

 

[Bovverboy]

Can anyone say whether Diagram 7 doubled up with Diagram 6 yesterday morning, Thursday 8/8/19? If it did, what was the unit i.d?

 

[Jamesrob637]

195s won't be going through Stockport, will they? 331s will be but I've not heard mention of the diesels. Buxton is set to remain with Sprinters and Alderley to Southport Flex or similar?