Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[LNW-GW Joint]

Similar to 150s and 319s. Similar layout really, but the 507 and 508s have aluminium bodies.

That's not right really.
All PEP units have rubbish seating, every one has a tiny piece of window but no clear views.
Window alignment is truly awful.
Merseyrail did at least convert the seating to high-backed 2+2 from low-backed 2+3, and they are fine for short journeys, with a very good ride.
But you don't enjoy any views, wherever you sit.

Northern/CAF have no obligation to align seats with windows, any more than Alstom or Hitachi.
It's all about maximising passenger capacity, while trying to retain some "style" and comfort.
I think the 195s are pretty good in that regard.

 

[fowler9]

I find that the most comfortable units to travel on in hot weather are the Pacers, sat on the bench seats near the doors. They have opening windows and there is no worry about AC not working and don't feel too closed in unlike a lot of the recent rolling stock.

My mum was travelling with me yesterday. She felt panicky being on the 195 and wanted to get off before we even left Piccadilly. She doesn't want to travel on them again.

The 195s are more suited for longer distance semi express work. For the majority of Northern stopping services I would have been happier with a more basic DMU probably based around the Tyne And Wear Metro cars but longer, or the CIE 8100 class; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIÉ_8100_Class

Whilst I appreciate that new rolling stock has to be made to higher crashworthiness standards, the chance of train collisions is now lower than ever due to protection systems in place. However the risk of panic attacks caused by claustrophobic trains is a lot more real.

Mate I totally get where you are coming from and hope your mum was alright. I also suffer from panic attacks so I have the utmost sympathy. I get them when I am stuck somewhere too hot and I can't get out. Our office was a problem in July 2016 when it got up 36° in Liverpool and the air conditioning wasn't on.

 

[fowler9]

I think I can say with confidence that there are no services now operated by 195s which have ever been operated by a single 142, let alone recently.
195s used on the Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street semi-fast service have, for the most part, replaced double 156s. Some would consider that to be a retrograde step, myself included.

I let a single 142 on a Manchester Airport to Lime Street go whilst waiting at Parkway in the evening peak the week before the 195's came in to service. Yeah they were generally pairs of 156's but to say a single pacer never turned up is incorrect.

 

[prod_pep]

I let a single 142 on a Manchester Airport to Lime Street go whilst waiting at Parkway in the evening peak the week before the 195's came in to service. Yeah they were generally pairs of 156's but to say a single pacer never turned up is incorrect.

Indeed. I saw a single 142 on a Manchester Airport - Liverpool Lime Street on Saturday 22/06/19 in addition to the one you mention. Uncommon but far from unheard of.

 

[driver_m]

A very clean looking 123 is on Edge Hill. Can’t remember if I’ve mentioned it before, but it’s fully put together, and in front of the newest arrival (331 013)

 

[jan5468]

Summit yes. Look at services from Huddersfied sidings in this week just gone in Real Time Trains.

I don't think a 195 has been through Summit tunnel yet. I've looked on Realtime Trains and can't find any evidence of one travelling any further west than Todmorden on the Calder Valley line.

 

[EIKN]

So much for Northern, it may as well just be renamed Northwest there is a vindictive ideology of keeping all new trains ( tyeb195's) for Northwest only.
They sold the public a lie, apart from a crummy electric service to Leeds ,all refurbed and new trains appear to be kept exclusively for the Northwest.
Unfair bias and one that should see Northern stripped of the franchise bad it's clear there is absolutely NO intention of new or refurbed units heading east to Yorkshire, South Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire it's just been a con from day one.

 

[samuelmorris]

No intention? https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/travel/northern-connect

 

[Bovverboy]

So much for Northern, it may as well just be renamed Northwest there is a vindictive ideology of keeping all new trains ( tyeb195's) for Northwest only.

You get pretty much the advertised service on Sundays, which is something the West side generally hasn't come anywhere near to getting in recent times.

 

[themiller]

So much for Northern, it may as well just be renamed Northwest there is a vindictive ideology of keeping all new trains ( tyeb195's) for Northwest only.
They sold the public a lie, apart from a crummy electric service to Leeds ,all refurbed and new trains appear to be kept exclusively for the Northwest.
Unfair bias and one that should see Northern stripped of the franchise bad it's clear there is absolutely NO intention of new or refurbed units heading east to Yorkshire, South Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire it's just been a con from day one.

Who got all the 170s, then?

 

[175001]

I don't think a 195 has been through Summit tunnel yet. I've looked on Realtime Trains and can't find any evidence of one travelling any further west than Todmorden on the Calder Valley line.

One training path the other week did a Preston to Huddersfield via Manchester which went through Summit. Was a 3 car

 

[507021]

So much for Northern, it may as well just be renamed Northwest there is a vindictive ideology of keeping all new trains ( tyeb195's) for Northwest only.
They sold the public a lie, apart from a crummy electric service to Leeds ,all refurbed and new trains appear to be kept exclusively for the Northwest.
Unfair bias and one that should see Northern stripped of the franchise bad it's clear there is absolutely NO intention of new or refurbed units heading east to Yorkshire, South Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire it's just been a con from day one.

Well up to now, only eight 195s and three 331s have entered service, so there's another 90 new trains which haven't even entered service yet. In fact, the only region where the new trains won't be operating, once they've all arrived, is the North East.

Yorkshire also has the 170s, most of which have been refurbished.

 

[driver_m]

So much for Northern, it may as well just be renamed Northwest there is a vindictive ideology of keeping all new trains ( tyeb195's) for Northwest only.
They sold the public a lie, apart from a crummy electric service to Leeds ,all refurbed and new trains appear to be kept exclusively for the Northwest.
Unfair bias and one that should see Northern stripped of the franchise bad it's clear there is absolutely NO intention of new or refurbed units heading east to Yorkshire, South Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire it's just been a con from day one.

So those 333, 150 and 156 units that are running around Yorkshire suddenly lose their PIS and refurbed seats, and magically become purple again do they? And as others have said, those 170s must be a figment of the imagination too. And what do you think those brand new trains running out of Donny are?

 

[Tim_UK]

I don't think a 195 has been through Summit tunnel yet. I've looked on Realtime Trains and can't find any evidence of one travelling any further west than Todmorden on the Calder Valley line.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N03674/2019/07/26/advanced

And it was a 195. I saw it.

 

[Bovverboy]

One unit does actually do two days (Friday/Saturday) without visiting a depot in between

Oops! Forgot about the one stabling at Preston Croft Street Sidings. So that's another seven occasions per week when a unit does two days work without visiting a depot in between.

 

[Bovverboy]

I think I can say with confidence that there are no services now operated by 195s which have ever been operated by a single 142

I thought I was probably sticking my neck out a bit saying that. Well, at least the 195s aren't operating any service which was ever regularly operated by a single 142.

 

[Llama]

Depends how far you go back, less than two decades ago a fair few of the Lime Street - Manchester Airport via CLC services were booked 1x (Merseyrail) 142.

 

[Mollman]

I don't think a 195 has been through Summit tunnel yet. I've looked on Realtime Trains and can't find any evidence of one travelling any further west than Todmorden on the Calder Valley line.

Modern Railways lists Leeds - Chester along with York - Blackpool North as the next route to benefit so guessing there should be one at somepoint soon

 

[Harvey B]

Modern Railways lists Leeds - Chester along with York - Blackpool North as the next route to benefit so guessing there should be one at somepoint soon

So does this mean that the units entering service next month are more units to run on the services they are already running?

 

[superkev]

Modern Railways lists Leeds - Chester along with York - Blackpool North as the next route to benefit so guessing there should be one at somepoint soon

I dont think Leeds - Chester will be 195 for a while yet as I believe Leeds are busy with 331 training and no crews have been 195 trained yet.
Of course they may be able to only use Manchester crews.
K

 

[Harvey B]

I dont think Leeds - Chester will be 195 for a while yet as I believe Leeds are busy with 331 training and no crews have been 195 trained yet.
Of course they may be able to only use Manchester crews.
K

Latest Thing I've heard from someone else on this forum is it won't be until September so I think the units entering service in August will be more 195s and 331s on the routes they already work (Cumbria to Manchester Airport & Liverpool to MIA for the 195s and Leeds to donny for the 331s)

 

[fowler9]

I thought I was probably sticking my neck out a bit saying that. Well, at least the 195s aren't operating any service which was ever regularly operated by a single 142.

Ha ha, fair play mate. They did and still do pop up on the route but aren't regular. One annoying thing about the 319's arriving in Liverpool is the fact that we seem to have lost the almost nailed on 156's on the CLC. Annoying for me as West Allerton is at the end of my road. Ha ha.

 

[507021]

I've been informed 195101 is due at Edge Hill imminently, possibly already there.

 

[fowler9]

17:52 from Parkway to Lime Street was a double 195, today a single 156. Anyone know what is going on? It is actually worse than before the 195's were introduced.

195109 just going empty through Parkway to the depot. No 195's on the last Airport to Lime Streets for weeks on the ones I have gone for which are most nights.

 

[Mathew S]

17:52 from Parkway to Lime Street was a double 195, today a single 156. Anyone know what is going on? It is actually worse than before the 195's were introduced.

195109 just going empty through Parkway to the depot. No 195's on the last Airport to Lime Streets for weeks on the ones I have gone for which are most nights.

I don't know what's going on, but I do think that only 1 195 (195115) was out on the Barrow/Windermere diagrams today with everything else 156 operated. Can't help wondering if there's something seriously wrong been discovered...

 

[kraiken]

I don't know what's going on, but I do think that only 1 195 (195115) was out on the Barrow/Windermere diagrams today with everything else 156 operated. Can't help wondering if there's something seriously wrong been discovered...

I was on one this morning 0812 from Oxford Road to Liverpool which had been formed by a Barrow service that had all stops after MCO cancelled. That meant it didn't connect to the Airport or Piccadilly and was thus very lightly loaded. The next stopping service on the same route was cancelled due to a shortage of train crew. I think summer holidays and the poor weather have got something to do with it. Makes it seem like poor planning and a rush to get them rolled out.

 

[Harvey B]

17:52 from Parkway to Lime Street was a double 195, today a single 156. Anyone know what is going on? It is actually worse than before the 195's were introduced.

195109 just going empty through Parkway to the depot. No 195's on the last Airport to Lime Streets for weeks on the ones I have gone for which are most nights.

Probably they're still experiencing faults/ still having teething issues. It'll always be the first set of units to enter service that'll have teething issues

 

[Mathew S]

Probably they're still experiencing faults/ still having teething issues. It'll always be the first set of units to enter service that'll have teething issues

There's teething problems and then there's teething problems, though. I could be completely wrong, but what I've seen today suggests that, of the 7 195s brought into service just 4 weeks ago, only 2 are serviceable. Maybe that's not the case, maybe it's a shortage of trained crew, or fallout from last night's weather issues, but whatever the reason it feels like a poor show.

I was on one this morning 0812 from Oxford Road to Liverpool which had been formed by a Barrow service that had all stops after MCO cancelled. That meant it didn't connect to the Airport or Piccadilly and was thus very lightly loaded. The next stopping service on the same route was cancelled due to a shortage of train crew. I think summer holidays and the poor weather have got something to do with it. Makes it seem like poor planning and a rush to get them rolled out.

Thanks for that - I'd seen that it had been terminated at Ox Road and wondered what they'd done with it.

 

[Bovverboy]

of the 7 195s brought into service just 4 weeks ago, only 2 are serviceable.

Eight 195s were theoretically available for the 1/7/19 rollout, but a maximum of seven were scheduled for daily use. With the addition of 195115, I make that now nine theoretically available.

 

[Harvey B]

There's teething problems and then there's teething problems, though. I could be completely wrong, but what I've seen today suggests that, of the 7 195s brought into service just 4 weeks ago, only 2 are serviceable. Maybe that's not the case, maybe it's a shortage of trained crew, or fallout from last night's weather issues, but whatever the reason it feels like a poor show.

Send an email to geoff marshall and tell him that. Also try looking for a 195 in service on a Sunday and you'll find that there's only one in service. It's a poor excuse to say that 7 of them should be in service. With the remaining 5 they could be training them on other routes, still training them on the existing routes or repairing them. My guess is that they could be doing all 3 (not at the same time)