Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[Bertie the bus]

They're not being held in reserve in case of shortfalls. They are carrying on as now on services largely centred around Sheffield.

 

[Harvey B]

The Class 144s will be staying until the middle of next year.

thanks

 

[palmersears]

195 126 now sat on Edge Hill Sidings alongside 125.

126 has been here a week or so, saw it last Monday. By my reckoning 122 was the last to arrive, although I think another might have arrived today, as there's a unit on the delivery road, at the very back of the depot, for the first time in a while.

 

[js1000]

Does anyone happen to know what caused 195114 on the 0725 Airport - Barrow to terminate at Wigan this morning? It pulled in, passengers disembarked / boarded, then an automated tannoy announcement saying cancelled "due to a fault on this train." I ask because I know when I travelled on the unit yesterday, it was having aircon issues. With no opening windows, if that's still faulty, would that be enough to take a train out of service?

EDIT: RTT is giving the reason as M7, a problem with the doors.

They're still suffering faults unfortunately. Air con has conked out on a couple of units this week. Doors are still proving awkward - particularly at Piccadilly and Oxford Road. Got off at Picc this morning after a protracted delay with the doors and a few Northern staff joking about the snagging faults.

 

[Harvey B]

I'm surprised they're keeping the 144s when they're limited as to where they can do due to traction knowledge vs the 142s.

Just out of curiosity, do you know the rationale behind that?

While we're on the subject of traction knowledge, will the crews that are trained for 331s also have to be re-trained for the 195s and vice versa? Or won't they have to because they're already trained for one of the trains.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

While we're on the subject of traction knowledge, will the crews that are trained for 331s also have to be re-trained for the 195s and vice versa? Or won't they have to because they're already trained for one of the trains.

My understanding is that once a crew member is trained on one of the new CAF types, it's a relatively short conversion course for the other.

 

[Harvey B]

My understanding is that once a crew member is trained on one of the new CAF types, it's a relatively short conversion course for the other.

Thanks

 

[Paul_10]

Well, unfortunately for you, it DID happen and it was 195116 between Man Airport and Heald Green where the fire bottle went off on one of the engines.

Happened on Tuesday just gone on the 1550 Man Airport to Liverpool service.

Not unfortunate for me, its unfortunate for Northern of yet another issue but at least it has been confirmed now. Looking at RTT it seems like it happened in the Heald Green area so is there any clues why this may of happened, was it weather related or just an unfortunate fault?

Also in general, why are the door issues seem more of a problem at Oxford Road and piccadilly, just unfortunate or is it down to heavier passenger loads and I'm guessing the door sensors are not working correctly hence the automatic closing?

 

[37057]

Not unfortunate for me, its unfortunate for Northern of yet another issue but at least it has been confirmed now. Looking at RTT it seems like it happened in the Heald Green area so is there any clues why this may of happened, was it weather related or just an unfortunate fault?

If it's fault, it's a right side failure and if it happened only once then it's a non-story.

 

[Train jaune]

On a positive note, took a 195 out of piccadilly two afternoons this week and the functioning air con was a godsend. Unlike the furnace that was the 156 on tuesday

 

[ainsworth74]

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Thanks,
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[scrapy]

Not unfortunate for me, its unfortunate for Northern of yet another issue but at least it has been confirmed now. Looking at RTT it seems like it happened in the Heald Green area so is there any clues why this may of happened, was it weather related or just an unfortunate fault?

Also in general, why are the door issues seem more of a problem at Oxford Road and piccadilly, just unfortunate or is it down to heavier passenger loads and I'm guessing the door sensors are not working correctly hence the automatic closing?

The automatic closing apparently due to driver taking key out early before the train management system realises the doors are released when swapping crew at stations where SDO rather than ASDO was required to release doors by the guard. The sensors work fine in normal operation, but are disabled when driver takes key out.

(Note there is possibly more to it than that and I am willing to stand corrected, but that's the explanation I've heard off a guard).

 

[driver_m]

Have to say thanks to @ainsworth74 for that post. Nothing more irritating than being asked for a source when people know we can’t provide them for obvious reasons. Glad this has been pointed out that it needs to stop.

As for the other post about 126. There’s a couple of places on Edge Hill like the pit or no.2 shed road where they can be hidden out the way. On the delivery road though, the unit on there yesterday had a pan, looked like a 3 car 331.

 

[Plethora]

A 195 just passed though on 1H47 Liverpool to Airport and the destination screens were switched off. Is there a known issue with these?

 

[Mogster]

Why are the brakes so squeaky on these things? The noise is horrendous.

 

[Mathew S]

A 195 just passed though on 1H47 Liverpool to Airport and the destination screens were switched off. Is there a known issue with these?

Some of them do have a tenuous relationship with reality. Someone posted up-thread that there's a software update gradually being rolled out. The units I've had last few days have seemed to have much more accurate and well behaved information screens, so hopefully the update is doing the trick. Perhaps the one you were on has yet to be updated.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Does anybody know if one of these has been through New Pudsey and Summit Tunnel yet ?

 

[ohgoditsjames]

They're not being held in reserve in case of shortfalls. They are carrying on as now on services largely centred around Sheffield.

Nice to know we’ll be stuck with Pacers longer than everywhere else, wouldn’t be surprised if they end being given derogations and remain permanent

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Nice to know we’ll be stuck with Pacers longer than everywhere else, wouldn’t be surprised if they end being given derogations and remain permanent

Do not forget there are Class 142 Pacers and Class 144 Pacers.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is to discuss Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates; if anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please create a new thread (or use an existing one if appropriate), thanks

 

[js1000]

A 195 just passed though on 1H47 Liverpool to Airport and the destination screens were switched off. Is there a known issue with these?

The screens not working on some is a minor issue really. Northern are really struggling with teething problems. Failing air con, misbehaving doors, engines breaking down.

There was discussions these would be introduced monthly but I doubt we'll see any more introduced until late September at the earliest until these recurring problems are ironed out. We have had a number of situations now where the train has been stuck at major stations (Oxford Road and Piccadilly) and delayed trains behind them.

 

[superkev]

The screens not working on some is a minor issue really. Northern are really struggling with teething problems. Failing air con, misbehaving doors, engines breaking down.

There was discussions these would be introduced monthly but I doubt we'll see any more introduced until late September at the earliest until these recurring problems are ironed out. We have had a number of situations now where the train has been stuck at major stations (Oxford Road and Piccadilly) and delayed trains behind them.

I wonder why long established manufacturer CAF seems to be having so much trouble making there trains work in the UK.
I'm sure CAF uses the same items like doors, aircon, brakes, toilets etc as competitors so I think it must be design or workmanship.
Do other countries have similar issues with CAF products.
Not a good omen for the just ordered from CAF Docklands fleet.
K

 

[Mountain Man]

After a few weeks and a number of trips, I'm finding the thing that is repeatedly annoying is the window / seat misalignment. They are otherwise pleasant trains, but it's an irritatingly basic design mistake

 

[Mountain Man]

Why are the brakes so squeaky on these things? The noise is horrendous.

They'll be fine once they wear in.

 

[Llama]

They've all done many more miles than they would take 'to bed in'. And brake pads on units are replaced on a frequency measured in weeks.

 

[MisterT]

Do other countries have similar issues with CAF products.

I can only speak for The Netherlands, as were we are receiving a batch of 206 CAF Civity EMUs (3 and 4 car) at the moment. We have had a few teething issues, but for a new train, the units are (and that's without sarcasm) the best performing new trains we've ever had. They were performing even better after the introduction than the Stadler FLIRT that we got a few years back.
After half a year, the trains are almost on par with other rolling stock in terms of reliability, and they are expected to surpass the average train after an update that is expected by the end of this year.

 

[MML]

Is it too late to change the seating layout on future deliveries ? It's a pity new rolling stock which will hopefully be in service for many years to come is arriving with such basic mistakes with seat and window misalignment.

 

[ic31420]

The automatic closing apparently due to driver taking key out early before the train management system realises the doors are released when swapping crew at stations where SDO rather than ASDO was required to release doors by the guard. The sensors work fine in normal operation, but are disabled when driver takes key out.

(Note there is possibly more to it than that and I am willing to stand corrected, but that's the explanation I've heard off a guard).

How long does it take to get control back after the key goes back in?

 

[Tim_UK]

Does anybody know if one of these has been through New Pudsey and Summit Tunnel yet ?

Summit yes. Look at services from Huddersfied sidings in this week just gone in Real Time Trains.

 

[modernrail]

Is it too late to change the seating layout on future deliveries ? It's a pity new rolling stock which will hopefully be in service for many years to come is arriving with such basic mistakes with seat and window misalignment.

As with the 5A stock for TP, has this been done on purpose to squeeze a few more seats in or is or genuinely lazy? I can't believe there is a fully window aligned format with the same number of seats that has not been thought of/rejected?

Even the new eurostar trains have this misalignment in standard. It is very annoying but there must be an underlying reason?