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Northern Class 195 availability

Killingworth

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30 May 2018
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Sheffield
Northern are clearly having major fleet issues at present with new replacements not due into service for another 5 years. Unfortunately the most recent new trains seem to lack reliability so older units are having to be reverse cascaded back to routes they left when the 195s were new.

We're in the middle of the Easter school holiday period. Here on the Hope Valley line demand for leisure journeys is high. It's most unfortunate that last weekend the normal 3 car 195s were replaced by 2 car units and 2 car 150s. Intending passengers were packed like sardines and some opted not to try boarding. Indeed platform staff and guards are reported to have been unable to get all aboard at some stops.

On Sundays they are already unable to operate their full timetable on the west side due to their manning issues. That should surely mean there are more units available to cover fewer services.

Today we seemed to start with the 3 diagrams covered by 3 car 195128, 3 car 195106 and 2 car 195004.

195208 seems to have remained on the route all day; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/handler?qsearch=195128&type=detailed

195106 seems to have been pulled in the afternoon to cover the Leeds fasts from 15.51; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/handler?qsearch=195106&type=detailed

That left it's normal Manchester bound 14.14 from Sheffield uncovered and cancelled ("This service was cancelled due to a problem with the traction equipment (MD)"; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L07029/2026-04-10/detailed

At stations it may have shown the reason as more trains than usual being repaired.
1775859885408.jpeg

2 car 195004 started the 3rd diagram but was sent off to do Leeds - Nottingham/Lincoln runs. 2 car 150126 took over a diagram as did 2 car 150140 and 2 car 195008 as resources were juggled.

It must have been a challenging day to get enough units available to run almost all the day's services, albeit most of them short formed.

I'm sure there'll be users of the Calder Valley, Ashington and other lines suffering similar inconvenience

So the question is why is this still virtually new rolling stock performing so badly? CAF as makers, Eversholt as owners and Northern as operators need to get this resolved very soon. Northern's 30 million extra passengers by 2030 can't be achieved if there aren't trains available when they're needed.

(769s very poor availability is another reason why there's minimal spare stock to cover contingencies. Remaining Southport users have been very poorly served.)
 
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Geeves

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Rochdale
I had heard rumours myself from the fitters at Victoria but it seems it really is true that any wheelsets needing attention are currently having to go back to the factory in Spain for maintenance in a container.

There is no facility here in the UK which doesn't spell good news for any CAF users in this country.
 

M60lad

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31 May 2011
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I can usually tell whether or not Northern are having a bad day regarding 195s whenever I'm on my way to work in the afternoon passing Newton Heath Depot and seeing how many 195s are stabled up, sometimes there can be quite a few stabled up when I go past.
 

Andy Pacer

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11 Jul 2017
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Leicestershire
195106 seems to have been pulled in the afternoon to cover the Leeds fasts from 15.51; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/handler?qsearch=195106&type=detailed

That left it's normal Manchester bound 14.14 from Sheffield uncovered and cancelled ("This service was cancelled due to a problem with the traction equipment (MD)"; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L07029/2026-04-10/detailed

At stations it may have shown the reason as more trains than usual being repaired.
View attachment 202093
Your 1414 2S85 actually ran empty back to Manchester as 5S85 formed of 195017 + 195024 but not sure where they appeared from.
 

FrontSideBus

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Whoever thought it would be a good idea to introduce a fleet of trains with no complete in-country supply chain for spares and consumables! The 197's are suffering too I think!
 

Killingworth

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Whoever thought it would be a good idea to introduce a fleet of trains with no complete in-country supply chain for spares and consumables! The 197's are suffering too I think!
And they're expected to run for another 30 years?

TPE's 185s are a lot heavier but they aim to have 46 out of 51 in service every day. Their Ardwick depot still can't fix incident damaged units immediately - bits get broken that aren't kept in stock. The Javelin unit that ran through the buffers is taking a long time to fix. However Northern's absent 2024 Grange-over-Sands derailment casualty is setting an unenviable record for time out of service.

58 units, none yet 10 years old, the youngest barely 6. They should be weĺl run in by now but seems they're already worn out. Far too much complexity in small run orders and too little thought into the lifetime servicing needs.
 
Joined
30 Apr 2025
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Location
Calder Valley
Whoever thought it would be a good idea to introduce a fleet of trains with no complete in-country supply chain for spares and consumables! The 197's are suffering too I think!
Indeed , no UK based supply chain and building trains at a factory with no mainline access ; it was never going to go well !

Another dismal showing on the 195 availability front today with multiple short forms on the busy Calder Valley : 6 of 9 Leeds/Manchester/Chester diagrams a solo 195/0 so avoid these if you can !!! I've never known so many services be short formed as recently, it's certainly not improving and the Calder Valley route seems to be getting clobbered with solo 195/0.

Elsewhere 150143 short forming for a 195/1 on the Hope Valley

On Leeds/Lincoln/Nottingham there's 158784 , 158903 and if your luck is really out 150277 on these 195 duties .
 
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Geeves

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Rochdale
Well I expected numbers to be worse just from the mk1 eye ball plus others eyes but it must be shortages elsewhere because a lot of 195s are out

18 out of 25 two cars out
25 3 cars out with 5 spare out of 33. So 20 in actual use currently
5 spares are 3 at Barrow, 1 at Blackpool N and 1 at Preston

Really does surprise me.
 

Killingworth

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So far today 1 in 3 Hope Valley services are 2 car instead of 3. Users from Grindleford and Dore are getting wise to this and taking the hit of going into Sheffield on a 2 car to stay aboard to get a seat to go west!
 

gazthomas

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There has to be something fundamentally wrong with the design of the bogies and their interface with the track.
 

FrontSideBus

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There has to be something fundamentally wrong with the design of the bogies and their interface with the track.
It does seem that all Civity based units and coaches suffer from the same problems of a lively ride and where you can hear and feel the bogie clattering and knocking about as if something is broken!
They did have a spate of the yaw damper mounting points cracking and sometimes falling off!
Maybe it's a European thing? The Mk4's when first introduced had quite a lively ride with their SIG bogies!
 
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Ribbleman

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12 Jun 2019
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326
It does seem that all Civity based units and coaches suffer from the same problems of a lively ride and where you can hear and feel the bogie clattering and knocking about as if something is broken!
They did have a spate of the yaw damper mounting points cracking and sometimes falling off!
Maybe it's a European thing? The Mk4's when first introduced had quite a lively ride with their SIG bogies!

Is it the case that the track access charges levied by Network Rail on the CAF Civity units is lower than that applied to, for example, 158s, 170s and 185s? So that in specifying units with cheaper, lower track force bogies, passenger comfort is sacrificed to save a few bob?
 

Bletchleyite

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20 Oct 2014
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"Marston Vale mafia"
It does seem that all Civity based units and coaches suffer from the same problems of a lively ride and where you can hear and feel the bogie clattering and knocking about as if something is broken!
They did have a spate of the yaw damper mounting points cracking and sometimes falling off!
Maybe it's a European thing? The Mk4's when first introduced had quite a lively ride with their SIG bogies!

If they were German I'd understand, as German branch line track is better than our mainlines sometimes. The only place in the UK where I've experienced German levels of smoothness (where you can barely tell you're moving) is the WCML fasts south of Bletchley. However I don't know about Spain?
 

Killingworth

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Whatever, this morning the first Hope Valley return service has failed to run, seemingly a crewing issue, not the 3 car allocated.

Its 2 hours until the next servuce currently showing as 2 car 195020.
 

Pete 1981

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7 Oct 2019
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Stockport
The 15:48 Picc-Sheffield has more often than not been a 2 car of late. The only day it was a 3 car set last week it was still full and standing leaving Manchester, so you can imagine the crush on a two car.
 

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