Northern City Line not fit for purpose

[Bald Rick]

For a while , I used to walk from Farringdon to Old Street , to avoid paying the LUL surcharge for the season ticket - not more than 25 mins , and a variable and interesting walk. Several neighbours do much the same - a walk as opposed to a crushed tube / subsurface journey. London is actually not a bad city for walking if you learn your routes and avoid the congested , polluted main roads.

(though walking say from Blackfriars towards Waterloo can be a pain , due to the a++hole joggers around , and not just in the peaks...)

Did Waterloo to Blackfriars this morning, Joggers are only an issue on the river path. Although the paparazzi outside itv can be a problem too!

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

I feel like New Southgate is the Maidenhead of Crossrail 2. On paper it's terminating there, but there's no practical reason to actually do so when it comes time to run trains. It's all about presenting the numbers correctly so the project gets the go ahead. Then, when it's halfway through and it's too late to go back, the bolt ons come out.

If Crossrail 2 goes to New Southgate, why wouldn't you extend some of those trains to Welwyn to take over from Moorgate services? New Southgate isn't a hub worthy of being a terminus and never will be. I know the reason for it going there is to build a depot, but there will be a lot of pressure to extend it from those north who want the shiny new trainline to come to them.

Provided the correct option is taken of building Crossrail 2 to serve Alexandra Palace and Turnpike Lane (both crucial interchanges) - as opposed to Wood Green to fit in with Haringey Council's vanity regeneration project - then any commuters who did want to change at Alexandra Palance for trains to Moorgate would have the opportunity to do so with regular connections onto Hertford-Moorgate services.

This then frees up the Moorgate branch to provide a more intensive service on the Hertford Loop, which needs more trains as they get very full in the peaks (though the 717s will help).

Back to the original question; it absolutely needs a deep clean and an update. I'm surprised the DfT have not required franchise holders to do something about it; that's the only way it's going to happen.

 

[Fred26]

A cleaning machine will be tested soon. If all goes well there will be a shut down and it will be run through the full length of the tunnels.

Moorgate station has seen the beginnings of a fresh coat of paint this week.

 

[class303]

Indeed if TfL put it on the Tube Map again, maybe more people will use it just though that!

Agreed. In my experience most casual NE London travellers (ie people who don't commute daily on the line) do not even know the line exists.

 

[Fred26]

Unfortunately TfL are very picky as to what makes the Tube Map. London Overground is on, but Thameslink isn't. Crossrail will be on, but the NCL isn't.
Frankly I think the Tube Map has become fairly redundant. Passengers should be given maps which show all lines inside zones 1-6. I can't see a good reason to differentiate, really. If anything, you could issue a 1-6 map and a smaller 1-3 map which obviously covers the most touristy areas.
(While we're at it, I wish TfL would number the LO services. When there's disruption on LO it's basically worthless information as it could be anywhere from Watford to Clapham to Stratford and Enfield. Numbers would possibly be useful on the DLR too.)

 

[goblinuser]

Unfortunately TfL are very picky as to what makes the Tube Map. London Overground is on, but Thameslink isn't. Crossrail will be on, but the NCL isn't.
Frankly I think the tube Map has become fairly redundant. Passengers should be given maps which show all lines inside zones 1-6. I can't see a good reason to differentiate, really. If anything, you could issue a 1-6 map and a smaller 1-3 map which obviously covers the most touristy areas.
(While we're at it, I wish TfL would number the LO services. When there's disruption on LO it's basically worthless information as it could be anywhere from Watford to Clapham to Stratford and Enfield. Numbers would possibly be useful on the DLR too.)

Or instead of numbering the lines, which could confuse people looking for platform numbers and times, use names. Overground Gospel Oak to Barking Line, East London Line, North London line, etc.

 

[Fred26]

Or that. Just something to differentiate.

 

[Mikey C]

Or instead of numbering the lines, which could confuse people looking for platform numbers and times, use names. Overground Gospel Oak to Barking Line, East London Line, North London line, etc.

If they use the name "North London Link" they wouldn't even need to change the signs on the NCL platforms at Highbury & Islington

 

[goblinuser]

If they use the name "North London Link" they wouldn't even need to change the signs on the NCL platforms at Highbury & Islington

That's a good name. Wish I'd taken a photo now - a few days ago I saw the line drawn in with biro on the platform tube maps.

 

[swt_passenger]

If they use the name "North London Link" they wouldn't even need to change the signs on the NCL platforms at Highbury & Islington

Even TfL should be able to afford to stick an ‘e’ on top of that ‘k’...

 

[goblinuser]

delete

 

[bramling]

Even TfL should be able to afford to stick an ‘e’ on top of that ‘k’...

These platforms are not the responsibility of TFL afaik.

 

[jon0844]

...the paparazzi outside itv can be a problem too!

Surely they stop taking photos of you after a while?

 

[Fred26]

These platforms are not the responsibility of TFL afaik.

That's correct.

 

[jellybaby]

These platforms are not the responsibility of TFL afaik.

But if you complain about anything on them then GTR will tell you it's a TfL station and there is nothing they can do.

For example platform WiFi would be much more useful at Moorgate than Finsbury Park.

 

[ijmad]

Would it foul the crossover if you ran an overlong 8 car class 7xx in to the platform at Moorgate? SDO doesn't seem like so much of a problem when you have a fully walkthrough train! Could provide a lazy capacity increase without doing costly or impossible platform lengthening.

 

[Bald Rick]

Surely they stop taking photos of you after a while?

No publicity is bad publicity.

 

[Bald Rick]

Would it foul the crossover if you ran an overlong 8 car class 7xx in to the platform at Moorgate? SDO doesn't seem like so much of a problem when you have a fully walkthrough train! Could provide a lazy capacity increase without doing costly or impossible platform lengthening.

Yes, a 6 coach train is just inside the block joint for the crossover.

 

[ijmad]

Yes, a 6 coach train is just inside the block joint for the crossover.

I know a lot of the Crayonistas want to see the line extended south, which is now impossible thanks to Crossrail's tunnels, but I wonder if a modest platform extension northwards with a move of that crossover would be more feasible if capacity on this line became a real problem. Although probably easier just to boost frequency.

 

[swt_passenger]

I know a lot of the Crayonistas want to see the line extended south, which is now impossible thanks to Crossrail's tunnels, but I wonder if a modest platform extension northwards with a move of that crossover would be more feasible if capacity on this line became a real problem. Although probably easier just to boost frequency.

I think you'd need a full line closure for many months (if not years) to do all the underground stations, rather than just Moorgate, but I expect the NR medium term plan is to raise frequency towards a theoretical maximum, using some sort of ATO, with platform extensions being the last resort.

 

[swaldman]

Frankly I think the Tube Map has become fairly redundant. Passengers should be given maps which show all lines inside zones 1-6.

Isn't that what the "London Connections" map is? (was?)

 

[swt_passenger]

Isn't that what the "London Connections" map is? (was?)

Agree entirely. The London Connections map displayed at stations became the "Oyster Rail" map just about the same time as the full rollout of PAYG on national rail with zones 1-6, whenever that was. It ought to be the only system diagram most people see.

On the double sided folding map available from stations it is referred to as "London's Rail and Tube services".

 

[Clip]

There were a couple of suggestions a few years ago that maybe the DLR could be extended beyond Bank, (at the time it was to Farringdon using the ex widened lines from Moorgate to terminate between the LU and Thameslink lines). Speculation was that the positioning of the terminally driven DLR sheild would have prevented a simple link to be made, and of course the situation is now further complicated by Crossrail. Does anybody here know what the relative levels of LU/DLR/XR lines are in that area and whether any further extension could be made from the DLR Bank stub?

This website has a great illustration of the bank complex on it
http://london-underground.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/3d-tube-maps-diagrams.html

 

[ijmad]

Up to the mid 90s, the The Northern City line, Thameslink core, North London lines and the W&C (all of which was NR at the time) were shown on the tube map, e.g. this one.

I think it's a crying shame the pocket map (which is primarily for visitors, not rail fanatics) won't show Thameslink at the very least.

 

[ijmad]

[Deleted]

 

[Cletus]

Page 5 of this leaflet has a central London map that includes Thameslink routes.
http://media.limkokwing.net/pdf/others/welcome_to_london.pdf

nb -It has out of date bits, eg Tottenham Court Road when the Northern Line was closed.

 

[greyman42]

This website has a great illustration of the bank complex on it
http://london-underground.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/3d-tube-maps-diagrams.html

Can you access DLR from monument?

 

[bramling]

Can you access DLR from monument?

Yes. The two DLR platforms have a central concourse with escalators at each end, the south end escalators lead up ultimately to the ticket hall at Monument station, whilst the north end escalators lead towards the Central and Waterloo & City lines plus the various Bank station exits. A set of stairs leads up from the concourse to the Northern Line platforms.

Much is set to change at Bank, with many extra passages and tunnels, new entrances, plus a new southbound platform for the Northern Line. For completeness, don't forget the C&SLR tunnels from Borough to King William Street are also in there.

 

[jellybaby]

There are axonometric diagrams of all Underground stations at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2015/07/12/3d-maps-of-every-underground-station-ab/

Bank/Monument is below:

 

[Clip]

Can you access DLR from monument?

yes. The diagram shows this does it not?