Northern 6 car workings

[samj]

Hi all,

After a bit of info really. I have been around the North West all weekend, and have noticed that there are more 6 car services on Northern than there used to be. I wonder if this has anything to do with 319s being introduced on Preston-Liverpool services recently?

I know on Saturday there was the Rugby on in Manchester, which makes sense. Today I have just travelled on 156471/142044/150225 on the 1217 Blackpool North-Man Vic. Are there any booked workings for 6 cars other than the 1719 Man Vic-Blackpool, which I already know about it?

Many thanks.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Hi all,

After a bit of info really. I have been around the North West all weekend, and have noticed that there are more 6 car services on Northern than there used to be. I wonder if this has anything to do with 319s being introduced on Preston-Liverpool services recently?

I know on Saturday there was the Rugby on in Manchester, which makes sense. Today I have just travelled on 156471/142044/150225 on the 1217 Blackpool North-Man Vic. Are there any booked workings for 6 cars other than the 1719 Man Vic-Blackpool, which I already know about it?

Many thanks.

The FO Stockport - Stalybridge runs as 6 cars although it's usually just the leading unit that is available to passengers.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I noticed this also on my weekend rover trip - seems they do this to cater for increased summer travel. In the case of a 14x coupling with a 15x, will there be a second guard onboard?

 

[northwichcat]

I think the 6 car running on the Bolton corridor services operated by Northern is unrelated to 319s on Liverpool-Preston, as 6 car workings were introduced due to the reduction in service due to the Farnworth Tunnel works back in May and due to the works overrunning the timetable has not yet returned to normal.

 

[Crossover]

There are almost certainly some diagrammed 6 cars to Buxton out of Piccadilly - a rather odd sight seeing 3 x 150's all coupled to each other!

 

[northwichcat]

There are almost certainly some diagrammed 6 cars to Buxton out of Piccadilly - a rather odd sight seeing 3 x 150's all coupled to each other!

Isn't that 1 x 6 car working to Buxton at the end of the morning peak and 1 x 6 car working to Manchester prior to the evening peak with the rear units locked out-of-use because Northern are limited as to how many units they can have at Piccadilly between the peaks?

 

[driver9000]

I noticed this also on my weekend rover trip - seems they do this to cater for increased summer travel. In the case of a 14x coupling with a 15x, will there be a second guard onboard?

Nope.


EDIT. Sometimes an extra person is provided to collect fares but only one Guard will be working safety critical duties of the train.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Nope.


EDIT. Sometimes an extra person is provided to collect fares but only one Guard will be working safety critical duties of the train.

Thats what I meant - an extra guard

 

[driver9000]

Thats what I meant - an extra guard

The extra guard is not essential and more often than not isn't present in my experience.

 

[Wolf]

Hi all,

After a bit of info really. I have been around the North West all weekend, and have noticed that there are more 6 car services on Northern than there used to be. I wonder if this has anything to do with 319s being introduced on Preston-Liverpool services recently?

I know on Saturday there was the Rugby on in Manchester, which makes sense. Today I have just travelled on 156471/142044/150225 on the 1217 Blackpool North-Man Vic. Are there any booked workings for 6 cars other than the 1719 Man Vic-Blackpool, which I already know about it?

Many thanks.

Did it fit everywhere ?

 

[185143]

Hi all,

After a bit of info really. I have been around the North West all weekend, and have noticed that there are more 6 car services on Northern than there used to be. I wonder if this has anything to do with 319s being introduced on Preston-Liverpool services recently?

I know on Saturday there was the Rugby on in Manchester, which makes sense. Today I have just travelled on 156471/142044/150225 on the 1217 Blackpool North-Man Vic. Are there any booked workings for 6 cars other than the 1719 Man Vic-Blackpool, which I already know about it?

Many thanks.

Were the units coupled in that order? Someone in another thread has stated that you can't 'sandwich' a pacer between two sprinters.

 

[PHILIPE]

Were the units coupled in that order? Someone in another thread has stated that you can't 'sandwich' a pacer between two sprinters.

That has later been corrected by a Driver who has driven such formations.

 

[northwichcat]

Did it fit everywhere ?

Network Rail have done temporary platform extensions so that 6 car DMUs can stop at all stations during the Farnworth Tunnel works.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

On a related note and out of curiosity, I know there is provision for a locomotive to pull a unit in the event of failure and such like - but has there been any occasion where a unit or formation of units has had to rescue a locomotive?

Can just see a formation of Pacers being called upon to push a failed 47 and a rake of coaches

 

[headshot119]

Were the units coupled in that order? Someone in another thread has stated that you can't 'sandwich' a pacer between two sprinters.

Which is a load of rubbish, can and does happen around the country.

 

[455driver]

Thats what I meant - an extra guard

They may be an Assistant Ticket Examiner or something like that on board, but there will not be a second guard on board!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Were the units coupled in that order? Someone in another thread has stated that you can't 'sandwich' a pacer between two sprinters.

Which was quickly corrected!

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I'm old fashioned - anyone checking my ticket is a "guard"

 

[185143]

Thats what I meant - an extra guard

They may be an Assistant Ticket Examiner or something like that on board, but there will not be a second guard on board!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Were the units coupled in that order? Someone in another thread has stated that you can't 'sandwich' a pacer between two sprinters.

Which was quickly corrected!

Fair enough, I never saw the correction!

 

[PHILIPE]

Fair enough, I never saw the correction!

The poster of the duff gen info admits possible confusion with Turbos.

 

[samj]

More 6 car workings yesterday on Blackpool-Man Vic services. Have northern started to strengthen units in time for Christmas shoppers? I guess they aren't hiring 47s this year.

 

[northernchris]

More 6 car workings yesterday on Blackpool-Man Vic services. Have northern started to strengthen units in time for Christmas shoppers? I guess they aren't hiring 47s this year.

It was the Manchester Christmas Lights switch on yesterday which may be why. Looking on Realtime Trains it appears from next Saturday the Blackpool - Victoria services are again running through to Huddersfield which would presumably prevent 6 car formations on the route. I'm sure for last year the service was split at Victoria, to enable units to be used where they were most needed for extra capacity so hopefully this isn't a sign of a reduction in strengthening on Saturdays

 

[jopsuk]

a six-car Northern services could be anywhere from 93m (pacers) long to 138m (super sprinters). A 6-car 156 formation is about as long as a 9-car 144. Class really, really matters when you're discussing if a 6-car formation will fit!

 

[northwichcat]

a six-car Northern services could be anywhere from 93m (pacers) long to 138m (super sprinters). A 6-car 156 formation is about as long as a 9-car 144. Class really, really matters when you're discussing if a 6-car formation will fit!

Although a 9 car 144 is hypothetical as Pacers aren't permitted to run in formations longer than 8 car.

People sometimes do forget how short the Pacers are when talking about them being 'cheap to operate.'
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It was the Manchester Christmas Lights switch on yesterday which may be why.

Man United were also playing at home and there were some unusual loadings due to FA cup ties. There were a number of Barnsley fans travelling to Altrincham (they could have filled up a 142 by themselves), fortunately the services they travelled on were operated by 142+150 formations. The 21:17 Manchester-Chester was a single 142 and was very 'cosy'.

I think Manchester City Council were trying to save money by having the Christmas Lights turned on (with Fireworks) on the Saturday closest to Bonfire Night.

 

[WatcherZero]

Had to do it this week, the christmas markets start next week so the square wont be empty enough to accomodate crowds.

 

[jopsuk]

Although a 9 car 144 is hypothetical as Pacers aren't permitted to run in formations longer than 8 car.

Indeed, it was merely a demonstration of how severe the difference is!

 

[Bevan Price]

More 6 car workings yesterday on Blackpool-Man Vic services. Have northern started to strengthen units in time for Christmas shoppers? I guess they aren't hiring 47s this year.

Yes - I saw a 150+156+150 formation on one diagram.

 

[Segedunum]

Yeah, 150110/156459/150137 were working one diagram and 142035/142052/142045 the other.

 

[television]

On Saturdays, between Blackpool & Victoria there are 3 diagrams which are booked as follows: 142+142+142 - 156+156+153 - 156+156+153.

 

[Segedunum]

Last Saturday we had 156+156 without the 153 too....hopefully the short forms won't repeat too often as Manchester at Christmas can be hectic.

 

[northwichcat]

Last Saturday we had 156+156 without the 153 too....hopefully the short forms won't repeat too often as Manchester at Christmas can be hectic.

Last Saturday there were also a number of cancelled services in the Manchester area due to staff shortages. Hopefully that won't be a common occurrence in coming weeks.