Northern 37 haulage

[Philip]

Would you like to see Northern using class 37s again for some of their passenger services when the trains get busier, hauling coaching stock instead of Sprinters on some services? Existing Sprinters could then be used for strengthening elsewhere, but from a nostalgic perspective; would the history, noise and clag aspects from the old locos make up for the inefficiency and environmentally-unfriendly problems?

Last time they only used them on the Cumbrian Coast I think, how would you feel if Northern took hold of a few and started using them for DMU routes out of Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield etc? It might be unrealistic but I doubt many people foresaw Northern bringing them back into passenger service for use on the Cumbrian Coast.

 

[JonathanH]

Would you like to see Northern using class 37s again for some of their passenger services when the trains get busier, hauling coaching stock instead of Sprinters on some services?

There aren't any suitable coaches for them to haul.

Existing Sprinters could then be used for strengthening elsewhere, but from a nostalgic perspective; would the history, noise and clag aspects from the old locos make up for the inefficiency and environmentally-unfriendly problems?

Those 'noise and clag aspects' might be enough to bring out protesters against their operation.

 

[zwk500]

Last time they only used them on the Cumbrian Coast I think, how would you feel if Northern took hold of a few and started using them for DMU routes out of Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield etc?

In order to achieve the acceleration required to operate the timetable in these cities the 37s would be limited to a short load, not to mention the requirement to top & tail most workings, because of the lack of infrastructure or capacity to run-round or shunt-release.

 

[Efini92]

The other issue is staff training. They can’t train up staff on the traction they have.
Would be nice to see some loco hauled stock though.

 

[JonathanH]

Last time they only used them on the Cumbrian Coast I think, how would you feel if Northern took hold of a few and started using them for DMU routes out of Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield etc?

They simply can't do that. The whole point of their operation on the Cumbrian Coast is that they were maintained at DRS's depot at Carlisle. Finding suitable maintenance facilities in other areas would be a lot more difficult.

It might be unrealistic but I doubt many people foresaw Northern bringing them back into passenger service for use on the Cumbrian Coast.

It is totally unrealistic and the circumstances now are entirely different from those which forced their use in 2015.

 

[Crawley Ben]

I’m no expert on these sorts of things, but I’m guessing the expense involved in terms of hiring loco’s, coaches, training etc, would surely far outweigh the benefits to the passengers?

Ben

 

[Neptune]

Would you like to see Northern using class 37s again for some of their passenger services when the trains get busier, hauling coaching stock instead of Sprinters on some services? Existing Sprinters could then be used for strengthening elsewhere, but from a nostalgic perspective; would the history, noise and clag aspects from the old locos make up for the inefficiency and environmentally-unfriendly problems?

Last time they only used them on the Cumbrian Coast I think, how would you feel if Northern took hold of a few and started using them for DMU routes out of Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield etc? It might be unrealistic but I doubt many people foresaw Northern bringing them back into passenger service for use on the Cumbrian Coast.

No I wouldn’t like to see this at all.

You mention nostalgia, history, noise and clag. Why would a modern thinking, environmentally conscious railway company consider any of those things?

Why would you want to increase pollution in the cities you mention and the towns, villages and countryside along those routes.

Image is another issue. As Northern is slowly improving the image of the trains it runs (101 new units plus an ongoing full refurbishment for everything else) why would they want to destroy that by bringing in some ancient loco hauled trains?

Also the cost would be phenomenal. All coaches used (I’m assuming you would be looking at DRS’ mk2’s) would need PRM mods which includes yet another new style of external sliding door. Then there’s staff training. Then there’s the reliability factor. It wasn’t a hugely reliable service on the Cumbrian Coast from what I recall especially once the DBSO’s were involved.

I seriously don’t get this obsession with loco hauled trains running on the modern railway (especially 60 year old locos with 50 year old coaches). When I was growing up in the 70’s nearly everything was loco hauled and it was great but times move on. We can’t as an industry keep harking back to the past. It isn’t healthy. At the moment we are seeing various new technologies coming in to play to improve things (especially for the environment) and as technology gets better so do the possibilities.

To want for ‘noise and clag’ for a bit of nostalgia is irresponsible at best.

 

[Bigman]

If you want noise and clag, then 150's, 155's and 156's already serve the purpose with the hoppers open. I would like to see 156's on the S&C over summer. Get a much better view out of the windows.

 

[Bill57p9]

To avoid too many operational (running round) and PRM issues, how about a 33/1 or 73 with 442s?

(Having lit touch paper, removes tongue from cheek and retires to a very safe distance)

 

[43096]

would the history, noise and clag aspects from the old locos make up for the inefficiency and environmentally-unfriendly problems?

Northern are running a public transport service, not a museum.

It might be unrealistic

You think?

 

[Class360/1]

Would you like to see Northern using class 37s again for some of their passenger services when the trains get busier, hauling coaching stock instead of Sprinters on some services? Existing Sprinters could then be used for strengthening elsewhere, but from a nostalgic perspective; would the history, noise and clag aspects from the old locos make up for the inefficiency and environmentally-unfriendly problems?

Last time they only used them on the Cumbrian Coast I think, how would you feel if Northern took hold of a few and started using them for DMU routes out of Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield etc? It might be unrealistic but I doubt many people foresaw Northern bringing them back into passenger service for use on the Cumbrian Coast.

I’ma but torn on this. As much as I like 37’s, they are really noisy and the mk2’s are an absolute pain for prm regulations

 

[xotGD]

Of course I would love to see 37s on sets of Mark 1s or Mark 2s. However, I think that is now restricted to the likes of the Scarborough Spa Express. At least it is still possible to travel on such a train on the main line.

What is of course realistic - because it is happening - is 67s on sets of Mark 4s. Could Northern do this on, for example, Nottingham - Leeds - Carlisle? Yes. Will they? No.

 

[Philip]

No I wouldn’t like to see this at all.

You mention nostalgia, history, noise and clag. Why would a modern thinking, environmentally conscious railway company consider any of those things?

Why would you want to increase pollution in the cities you mention and the towns, villages and countryside along those routes.

Image is another issue. As Northern is slowly improving the image of the trains it runs (101 new units plus an ongoing full refurbishment for everything else) why would they want to destroy that by bringing in some ancient loco hauled trains?

Also the cost would be phenomenal. All coaches used (I’m assuming you would be looking at DRS’ mk2’s) would need PRM mods which includes yet another new style of external sliding door. Then there’s staff training. Then there’s the reliability factor. It wasn’t a hugely reliable service on the Cumbrian Coast from what I recall especially once the DBSO’s were involved.

I seriously don’t get this obsession with loco hauled trains running on the modern railway (especially 60 year old locos with 50 year old coaches). When I was growing up in the 70’s nearly everything was loco hauled and it was great but times move on. We can’t as an industry keep harking back to the past. It isn’t healthy. At the moment we are seeing various new technologies coming in to play to improve things (especially for the environment) and as technology gets better so do the possibilities.

To want for ‘noise and clag’ for a bit of nostalgia is irresponsible at best.

I should stress this thread is more of a question about how other forum members feel about the idea, rather than the likelihood of it happening.

In terms of the environmental problems, would a pair of Sprinters be much greener than a 37 or similar loco?

 

[Neptune]

In terms of the environmental problems, would a pair of Sprinters be much greener than a 37 or similar loco?

That’s really irrelevant to your op as you suggest redeploying them so you’re actually increasing pollution by your suggestion.

 

[Philip]

That’s really irrelevant to your op as you suggest redeploying them so you’re actually increasing pollution by your suggestion.

Redeploying them on existing Sprinter services, not in place of EMUs or new DMUs.

I don't think many could argue that having a 37 thrashing out of the station with a rake of 4-5 coaches, compared with 1980s DMUs, would bring a lot of character back to the railways in these areas.

 

[jh64]

Outside of a day at a heritage site, I don't think there's many situations where I'd be overly thrilled to see something built before the moon landing pulling up to the platform.

 

[Iskra]

68’s or 67’s would be much more sensible with Mk3/4/5.

37’s were enjoyable but unreliable.

 

[zwk500]

I don't think many could argue that having a 37 thrashing out of the station with a rake of 4-5 coaches, compared with 1980s DMUs, would bring a lot of character back to the railways in these areas.

People don't want character. They want the trains to be on time. Trading DMUs for 37s is not going to help that cause.

 

[Neptune]

I don't think many could argue that having a 37 thrashing out of the station with a rake of 4-5 coaches, compared with 1980s DMUs, would bring a lot of character back to the railways in these areas.

Only spotters/enthusiasts want character. Joe Public wants clean modern reliable trains (ie the vast majority of travellers). Sprinters aren’t perfect but to replace a refurbished sprinter with a much older pollution enhancing relic on coaches would bring the worst environmental publicity possible to the company.

We need to look to the future, not constantly harp on about the past.

 

[47434]

If Northern didn't take advantage of Mk4 stock or HST's then the chance of 37's and Mk2's is zero.

If you want nostalgia support the Pres sector - heck they need it.