Northern 180

[metromuppet]

Hi all,
Are Northern still running their 180s on any services, or have they gone now?

Cheers,

 

[SprinterMan]

Hi all,
Are Northern still running their 180s on any services, or have they gone now?

Cheers,

I think they are still about on the Blackpool trains until december, but I heard that FGW for some reason will be getting the 5 formerly reserved for East Coast (incl. northern's 3). I don't think FGW should get them, as it was them who retired the 180s in the first place. Give 1 of them to Hull Trains, who in recent weeks have shown they need another one to cover for reliability issues, and give the remaining 4 to Grand Central. 1 of GCs 3 HSTs can go to East Coast, allowing the former EMT HST (with Non-Standard VP185 Engine) to go back to EMT so EMT can run more Scarborough trains, and give the other 2 GC HSTs to XC to boost capactiy and to displace voyagers so busy voyager serveices can be doubled up.

 

[driver9000]

Two sets booked to be in traffic Monday-Friday. One diagram is peak hours and one is a full day.

One diagram works:
06:53 Blackpool North-Hazel Grove
09:33 Hazel Grove-Preston
14:23 Preston-Hazel Grove
16:30 Hazel Grove-Preston
17:56 Preston-Manchester Victoria
19:28 Manchester Victoria-Blackpool North.

Second diagram works departures from Blackpool North at 07:18,11:20,15:20,19:20 and departures from Manchester Victoria at 09:22,13:22,17:19,21:22. Friday has the booked set swap for to/from Newton Heath for exam between the 20:45 arrival and 21:22 departure at Manchester Victoria.

Weekends sees both sets in traffic stabled on the yard at Blackpool North.

 

[northwichcat]

or have they gone now?

They can't go as there's no units to take their place! Northern are still waiting for cascaded DMUs from FGW and LM and EMT can't get the extra 156s they've been promised either because again Northern haven't had the cascaded units to replace them.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Two sets booked to be in traffic Monday-Friday. One diagram is peak hours and one is a full day.

One diagram works:
06:53 Blacpool North-Hazel Grove
09:33 Hazel Grove-Preston
14:23 Preston-Hazel Grove
16:30 Hazel Grove-Preston
17:56 Preston-Manchester Victoria
19:28 Manchester Victoria-Blackpool North.

Second diagram works departures from Blackpool North at 07:18,11:20,15:20,19:20 and departures from Manchester Victoria at 09:22,13:22,17:19,21:22. Friday has the booked set swap for to/from Newton Heath for exam between the 20:45 arrival and 21:22 departure at Manchester Victoria.

Weekends sees both sets in traffic stabled on the yard at Blackpool North.

You wouldn't have the diagrams that they work for Saturday would you?

I actually think that there are a company that need the 180s more than FGW and East Coast at the moment and that is First Hull Trains!

I recently read somewhere that they had some kind of problem with the 180s and had to give them back so they only have a couple of sets

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Weekends sees both sets in traffic stabled on the yard at Blackpool North.

You wouldn't have the diagrams that they work for Saturday would you?

Read posts before yours more carefully next time

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Read posts before yours more carefully next time

Sorry

 

[150222]

the grand central hst's are only 5 cars long so i don't think east coast will want one and although they could go to cross country they won't bring significant extra capacity unlike the other 5 seven coach ones.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

GC should keep hold of the HSTs althought they were better before they were MTU-tered. They should have pride of place on the KGX - SUN service while the Adelente Coradias should have pride of place on the West Ridings route

What has happened with FHT BTW with regards to their trains?

 

[SprinterMan]

GC should keep hold of the HSTs althought they were better before they were MTU-tered. They should have pride of place on the KGX - SUN service while the Adelente Coradias should have pride of place on the West Ridings route

What has happened with FHT BTW with regards to their trains?

I heard a few weeks (?) ago they had to revert to running a Hull-DOncaster shuttle to connect with DC as 2 of their 180s were under repair or soemthing.

 

[Nym]

TBH, I recon that the 5 'spare' 180s should be sent over to TPE to cover some of the MIA - NCL / Midds diagrams, or maybe the Hull - Manchester diagrams (as this would allow them to run at MU speeds again on the Selby - Hull section of the route).

Would give a nice much needed boost to the capacity in the 185 fleet, get some of the vandalism removed and strengthen more services between Preston and Manchester, and with a bit of work have all services between York & Manchester as 6 car units.

Not to mention that when TPE is diverted to Victoria and the Hull - Manchester service is extended to Chester or Liverpool (Liverpool is heavily implied in the RUS) then more stock will be needed.

Anyway, 'spare' 180s to TPE please. Put them in generic First livery and they could be used to cover HT diagrams or shortages out of Paddington if needed.

 

[dcd]

departures from Manchester Victoria at 09:22,13:22,17:19,21:22.

does anyone know what the set was that was on the 13:22 from Manchester Victoria toady. I saw it but could not get the number.

 

[driver9000]

does anyone know what the set was that was on the 13:22 from manchester victoria toady. I saw it but could not get the number.

180108.

 

[dcd]

Thanks

 

[sprinterguy]

GC should keep hold of the HSTs althought they were better before they were MTU-tered. They should have pride of place on the KGX - SUN service while the Adelente Coradias should have pride of place on the West Ridings route

Grand Centrals' HSTs were dire in terms of reliability when they still had their Valenta engines. They're much improved now and seem to have settled down to being reliable, fairly dependable machines. The only problems I know of at the moment are with coaching stock, where one of the HST rakes is currently formed principally of first class vehicles, declassified as required.

At the present time, the Sunderland services are indeed being solely worked by two HST diagrams while the 180s are concentrated on the Bradford flow. I'd love to know what the reason for the mainly first class HST formation is though!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I actually think that there are a company that need the 180s more than FGW and East Coast at the moment and that is First Hull Trains!

I don't think that open access operators should be getting the pick of the available rolling stock when the franchised TOCs are in desperate need of additional trains. The 180s are perfect for FGWs' Cotswolds services and it's madness that Great Western rejected them in the first place, which probably has Alstoms' shoddy customer care strategy at least partly to blame.

 

[northwichcat]

TBH, I recon that the 5 'spare' 180s should be sent over to TPE to cover some of the MIA - NCL / Midds diagrams, or maybe the Hull - Manchester diagrams (as this would allow them to run at MU speeds again on the Selby - Hull section of the route).

Not to mention that when TPE is diverted to Victoria and the Hull - Manchester service is extended to Chester or Liverpool (Liverpool is heavily implied in the RUS) then more stock will be needed.

I agree about extra TPE capacity. However, the Manchester Hub proposals are a long time off yet, there's an electrification program first and the franchises are likely to be reorganised before then and by then it might be that all the 180s are off-lease as we don't know the long term future of the companies Hull Trains and GC or the rolling stock.

 

[Nym]

The TPE Diversion will happen as soon as the ordstall curve is completed...

 

[ValleyLines142]

Hi all,
Are Northern still running their 180s on any services, or have they gone now?

Cheers,

I believe they are, but they are due to be going at the end of the year. Shame I think!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hi!

Does anybody know if the 15:27 Buxton - Barrow-in-Furness service (2C33) is operated by a 156 or a 180. I would love it to be a 180 but they're not cleared north of Preston are they? (except Blackpool). Then again, a 156 on a three and a half hour journey isn't the most comfortable! :P
Dan

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I believe they are, but they are due to be going at the end of the year. Shame I think!

You could say TPE / FGW need them more, and Northern are due some Pacers from FGW as replacements I think.

Nice trains anyway, I'll give you that, they just look tired though after changing TOCs about five times in nine years...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Does anybody know if the 15:27 Buxton - Barrow-in-Furness service (2C33) is operated by a 156 or a 180. I would love it to be a 180 but they're not cleared north of Preston are they? (except Blackpool). Then again, a 156 on a three and a half hour journey isn't the most comfortable! :P
Dan

It won't be a 180. I'm fairly sure it'll be a 156, maybe (but not very likely) a 150, they aren't too common along the South Cumbria Coast

 

[northwichcat]

Does anybody know if the 15:27 Buxton - Barrow-in-Furness service (2C33) is operated by a 156 or a 180. I would love it to be a 180 but they're not cleared north of Preston are they? (except Blackpool). Then again, a 156 on a three and a half hour journey isn't the most comfortable! :P
Dan

The 180s aren't cleared south of Hazel Grove.

The 15:27 to Barrow is booked for a 156. The 16:30 Hazel Grove to Preston is booked for a 180. The 14:30 Buxton to Manchester is booked for 156+150+150 but expect the rear unit and possibly the middle unit to be locked out of use.

 

[DarloRich]

I think they are still about on the Blackpool trains until december, but I heard that FGW for some reason will be getting the 5 formerly reserved for East Coast (incl. northern's 3). I don't think FGW should get them, as it was them who retired the 180s in the first place. Give 1 of them to Hull Trains, who in recent weeks have shown they need another one to cover for reliability issues, and give the remaining 4 to Grand Central. 1 of GCs 3 HSTs can go to East Coast, allowing the former EMT HST (with Non-Standard VP185 Engine) to go back to EMT so EMT can run more Scarborough trains, and give the other 2 GC HSTs to XC to boost capactiy and to displace voyagers so busy voyager serveices can be doubled up.

EC now "own" the former EMT HST they had on hire. They are/will be on thier way to Brush for a new MTU engine

I bet GC will be REALLY pleased to loose thier HST sets for 180's! HST are much nicer and much more popular with us passengers ( and, more importnantly, I will NOT be a happy bunny if ALL of thier services are run by 180's )

 

[snail]

Does anybody know if the 15:27 Buxton - Barrow-in-Furness service (2C33) is operated by a 156 or a 180. I would love it to be a 180 but they're not cleared north of Preston are they? (except Blackpool).

First NW then TPE used to operate 175s to Barrow so the 180 wouldn't be a problem.

 

[driver9000]

180s are not cleared for working north of Preston nor are the crews that work north of Preston trained on the type.

 

[ukrob]

First NW then TPE used to operate 175s to Barrow so the 180 wouldn't be a problem.

It may well 'not be a problem', but it is, because they are not cleared. Whether a similar train is cleared or not has no relevance.

Apologies if you already know this - it isn't clear from your post .

 

[ValleyLines142]

You could say TPE / FGW need them more, and Northern are due some Pacers from FGW as replacements I think.

Nice trains anyway, I'll give you that, they just look tired though after changing TOCs about five times in nine years...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It won't be a 180. I'm fairly sure it'll be a 156, maybe (but not very likely) a 150, they aren't too common along the South Cumbria Coast

Hmm, I don't know if I could do a 156 that long :P
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 180s aren't cleared south of Hazel Grove.

The 15:27 to Barrow is booked for a 156. The 16:30 Hazel Grove to Preston is booked for a 180. The 14:30 Buxton to Manchester is booked for 156+150+150 but expect the rear unit and possibly the middle unit to be locked out of use.

Ah I see, I didn't realise the 180's weren't cleared south of Hazel Grove. Why would the 14:30 from Buxton be formed of six coaches when half of them aren't being used? Or are they ECS?

 

[northwichcat]

Ah I see, I didn't realise the 180's weren't cleared south of Hazel Grove. Why would the 14:30 from Buxton be formed of six coaches when half of them aren't being used? Or are they ECS?

Northern are limited as to how many units can be stabled at Piccadilly during the day so they send some of the extra Sprinters used at peak time to Buxton, which then get sent back to Piccadilly in the form of the 14:30 working.

 

[150222]

You could say TPE / FGW need them more, and Northern are due some Pacers from FGW as replacements I think.

Nice trains anyway, I'll give you that, they just look tired though after changing TOCs about five times in nine years...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It won't be a 180. I'm fairly sure it'll be a 156, maybe (but not very likely) a 150, they aren't too common along the South Cumbria Coast

150s are not cleared either

 

[driver9000]

150s are cleared Carnforth-Barrow. They don't appear often but aren't unheard of. They are prohibited Maryport-Carlisle.

 

[snail]

It may well 'not be a problem', but it is, because they are not cleared. Whether a similar train is cleared or not has no relevance.

Apologies if you already know this - it isn't clear from your post .

Yes I did, and no it isn't! I was trying to say that clearance for 175s should make clearing 180s a possibiliity if someone wanted it, not that it is going to happen.

I'll shut up now before I confuse anyone else.