Northern 158s

[yorksrob]

Northern are getting 20x150s in pace of 4x156s and 3x180s. The other 142s are very likely to return as extra capacity and there are currently 150s that are 'unallocated' when the 172 delivery is complete so it's possible Northern may get more than 20x150s.

Well, we could certainly use them. Although that'd be more for northern to get round to refurbishing.

 

[strange6]

Northern are getting 20x150s in place of 4x156s and 3x180s. The other 142s are very likely to return as extra capacity and there are currently 150s that are 'unallocated' when the 172 delivery is complete so it's possible Northern may get more than 20x150s.

God, we're going to have nothing but 150's. Some new trains would make a nice change for once. How much would a 2 car unit cost these days?

 

[Blindtraveler]

i suspect the next northern franchise wil include the procurement of some 172s or similar for key runs e.g york blackpool, s and c, runs to hull etc which would then mean a cascade of other units and maybe the retirement of some pasers? when i was using the s and c regularly a cupple of years back i only ever got 158s but the condition varied greatly. The sets with the low backed seats wernt good and there was a bad phase of having no working loos. Fun, not

 

[Yew]

The northern 150's are nice, maybe a bit of a spring clean around the toilet area and enterances could be needed though/ If it can get pacers out of the north then im fine with it (how about using them for all the olympic tourists ^^)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

i suspect the next northern franchise wil include the procurement of some 172s or similar for key runs e.g york blackpool, s and c, runs to hull etc

Replacing perfectly suitable 158s???

150s never touch the above, more services on non-OHLE local lines around Manchester and Leeds.

 

[WestCoast]

Replacing perfectly suitable 158s???

The 158s (apart from the few 180s) are IMO the best thing Northern has!

Agreed, 158s are ideal for Blackpool - York. I regularly do Poulton - York (almost the whole route) and am generally satisfied, particualrly with the 3-car 158s.

Although, back in 2004 I was surprised to see Northern getting this route, I'd have thought TPE would get it, in which case 170s/185s would be running on it.

The ex-Arriva Trains Northern 156s that seem to frequent the Blackpool North - Man Vic route have quite tatty interiors. Marks and scuffs all over the grubby well-worn lurid green seats. The refreshed ex-First North Western 156s seem much better!

I don't really like the 150s with the all bay seating, it's OK for commuter runs but on busy longer services it can get tedious.

 

[strange6]

The 158s (apart from the few 180s) are IMO the best thing Northern has!

Agreed, 158s are ideal for Blackpool - York. I regularly do Poulton - York (almost the whole route) and am generally satisfied, particualrly with the 3-car 158s.

Although, back in 2004 I was surprised to see Northern getting this route, I'd have thought TPE would get it, in which case 170s/185s would be running on it.

The ex-Arriva Trains Northern 156s that seem to frequent the Blackpool North - Man Vic route have quite tatty interiors. Marks and scuffs all over the grubby well-worn lurid green seats. The refreshed ex-First North Western 156s seem much better!

I don't really like the 150s with the all bay seating, it's OK for commuter runs but on busy longer services it can get tedious.

Fully agree with this. The 158's are the best stock Northern have by a long chalk

 

[142094]

I'd say the 333s are the best stock from a purely passenger point of view.

 

[WestCoast]

I'd say the 333s are the best stock from a purely passenger point of view.

Sorry, I was ignoring electric stock. Plus some people (including myself) still think of Northern as two separate franchises even 7 years on...

The 333s are indeed nice units, ideal for the North West Electrification, but somehow I don't think the Airedale/Wharfedale lines are going to give them up!

 

[142094]

Definitely not, the 333s will be staying there for a good while yet.

 

[Blindtraveler]

i agree personally with the points on 158s but cant see the toc charged with modernising northerns fleatlist will think the same. There thoughts wil be to look at the longest runs and allocate new stock to those, it seams to happen most other places. think its sad northern always lose out on new trains, hope when the 14x series go that new stock comes in rather than another cascade, assuming they dont go for tram trains

 

[387star]

Back in the summer I went on an ex Northern spirit 156. A table was missing which was a shame and yes there were marks beneath the overhead racks. But the general ambience wasn't so bad and I'd say they have stood the test of time well. The class 156 is a great unit (when used on the right services) and I'd rather be on one than a 158 with failing aircon!

I'm still shocked all trains are in Northern livery because it took several years after the launch before any trains were touched! It pleases me they have invested in new station signage which is clear and simple. Perhaps because all the 158 units were unforseen extra units they didn't have a refurbishment built in.

The ex FNW 150s didn't need much doing to them (although I agree the seats are very crampt) but perhaps some attention to the floor which I noticed sticking up on an unrefurbished example last summer!

Which 156s are moving to EMT and I presume this may be delayed? And arn't London Midland retaining 7 150s for the likes of Bedford-Bletchley.. if Northern do get LM 153s on a permanent move then good for them LED lighting

 

[WestCoast]

Back in the summer I went on an ex Northern spirit 156. A table was missing which was a shame and yes there were marks beneath the overhead racks. But the general ambience wasn't so bad and I'd say they have stood the test of time well.

They are not so bad, it's just that the seating has been been vandalised with scratches (they are deliberate I can tell) and they need a good clean, but the ex-FNW that have been refreshed are so much better.

 

[387star]

Arnt Northern fitting them with CCTV? I'm sure this has seen a reduction in vandalism oin the Great Western ie the class 153 which were heavily vandalised (presumably by Exeter or Bristol folk) when I visited Cornwall in 2006/7.

 

[YorkshireBear]

the 150's are being split between LM FGW and Northern. negociations (i cant spell that word!) are ongoing. Northern get a net increase (presuming 142's come back) of about 11 units i believe?
6 150's to replace 180's 4 to replace 156's plus a few extra plus 7 142's?

should help peak capacity by removing a pacer for the day and just adding it at peaks

 

[northwichcat]

6 150's to replace 180's 4 to replace 156's plus a few extra plus 7 142's?

Just realised after reading your post that I confused vehicles and units in my earlier post.

Originally Northern were due to get 8x150s (16 vehicles) and lose 4x156s (8 vehicles) and also to get the 142s back and lose the 180s. However, Northern expressed concerns over this and it got revised so that Northern will get an additional 6x150s (12 vehicles not trains), seen as 180 replacement with the 142s seen as extra stock for strengthening.

So I should have said 12x150s not 20x150s. Although with 3 operators including Northern being involved in a scrap for the unallocated 150s it is actually possible that Northern could get around 20x150s overall.

 

[sprinterguy]

Just realised after reading your post that I confused vehicles and units in my earlier post.

Originally Northern were due to get 8x150s (16 vehicles) and lose 4x156s (8 vehicles) and also to get the 142s back and lose the 180s. However, Northern expressed concerns over this and it got revised so that Northern will get an additional 6x150s (12 vehicles not trains), seen as 180 replacement with the 142s seen as extra stock for strengthening.

So I should have said 12x150s not 20x150s. Although with 3 operators including Northern being involved in a scrap for the unallocated 150s it is actually possible that Northern could get around 20x150s overall.

Although I don’t know if it is still the case, then if LM are retaining the twenty four 150 carriages (150001/02/16/17, 150202/4/6/10/20/26) they are reported to be then Northern will not be getting any more than the additional six 150s over the originally planned eight unless FGW get fewer units than promised, as all the 150s would be accounted for at that point (barring two carriages). Though even if LM do retain those four three carriage units, I’d like to see the 150/2s mentioned cascaded away.

 

[northwichcat]

Although I don’t know if it is still the case, then if LM are retaining the twenty four 150 carriages (150001/02/16/17, 150202/4/6/10/20/26) they are reported to be.

I think the story here is that London Midland want to keep some of the 150s. The 150s are only their units until the 172s are in service and after that if they want them as extra capacity they have to fight with others operators who want extra capacity. Apparently LM want to keep 10x150s and cascade their 153s with FGW expressing an interest in more 153s if that happens. However, DfT get the final say and it's not the same DfT who originally came up with the cascade ideas so it's possibly why there are so many different stories circulating regarding the last of the 150s.

 

[sprinterguy]

I think the story here is that London Midland want to keep some of the 150s. The 150s are only their units until the 172s are in service and after that if they want them as extra capacity they have to fight with others operators who want extra capacity. Apparently LM want to keep 10x150s and cascade their 153s with FGW expressing an interest in more 153s if that happens. However, DfT get the final say and it's not the same DfT who originally came up with the cascade ideas so it's possibly why there are so many different stories circulating regarding the last of the 150s.

Ah fair enough. Good to see that LM aren’t being shown any preference in retaining some units, and that they’ll have to bid for them just the same as everyone else (Although 150001/02/16/17 are all non-standard in some way, so would make sense remaining with LM for the time being IMO).