Northern 158s

[hougtimo]

Just come back from a weekend filled with travel on Northern 158s. They were all (save one) in disgusting condition inside. Some even had a medley of different seat cover patterns and carpet patterns, meeting in the middle of the car.

Two units were very quiet - engine sound wise - but the rest were noisy, vibrate-y and smelly (diesely).

Not very nice

 

[yorksrob]

I find they're usually fine, though they tend to get a bit rubbish strewn towards the end of the weekend.

Northern seems to be re-upholstering quite a few units in purple at the mo which is good because some were/are getting a bit grubby.

 

[strange6]

I find they're usually fine, though they tend to get a bit rubbish strewn towards the end of the weekend.

Northern seems to be re-upholstering quite a few units in purple at the mo which is good because some were/are getting a bit grubby.

I usually find them ok. They have a few on the Leeds to man Vic routes and I always find them clean and quite comfortable, unlike their 150 cousins! I still think these units hold Northern back; horrible units.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I usually find them ok. They have a few on the Leeds to man Vic routes

In all my hours on MCV and LDS, and intermediate stations, I have never seen a 158 on the MCV-LDS services, they are usually 144s or 155s. 158s are almost strictly reserved for BPN-YRK and LDS-NOT Northern services.
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I still think these units hold Northern back; horrible units.

What else could they use???

 

[strange6]

In all my hours on MCV and LDS, and intermediate stations, I have never seen a 158 on the MCV-LDS services, they are usually 144s or 155s. 158s are almost strictly reserved for BPN-YRK and LDS-NOT Northern services.

I usually get the 11:14 from Rochdale and that's usually a 158
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In all my hours on MCV and LDS, and intermediate stations, I have never seen a 158 on the MCV-LDS services, they are usually 144s or 155s. 158s are almost strictly reserved for BPN-YRK and LDS-NOT Northern services.
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What else could they use???

I know, that's why i have every sympathy for Northern - lumbered with rubbish stock

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I usually get the 11:14 from Rochdale and that's usually a 158

Still strange; in May last year I spent one week, baout six hours a day on MCV, the only units gracing Manchester's finest station were 142s, 144s, 150s, 153s, 155s, 156s and 180s. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[lm321412]

In all my hours on MCV and LDS, and intermediate stations, I have never seen a 158 on the MCV-LDS services, they are usually 144s or 155s. 158s are almost strictly reserved for BPN-YRK and LDS-NOT Northern services.

I saw a 158 working a MCV to LDS service yesterday...

Also, virtually all services from Sheffield - Bridlington and Scarborough are operated by 158s.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I usually get the 11:14 from Rochdale and that's usually a 158
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I know, that's why i have every sympathy for Northern - lumbered with rubbish stock

150s are hardly the worst trains around - FGW have done up theirs to an exceptional quality, ATW's are nice too, hardly poor stock, they just aren't the best when your in Northern's situation.

I saw a 158 working a MCV to LDS service yesterday...

Also, virtually all services from Sheffield - Bridlington and Scarborough are operated by 158s.

Indeed, all services along the Yorkshire coast (HUL-SCA) are booked for 158 operations, as well as many from Sheffield towards Hull.

 

[strange6]

150s are hardly the worst trains around - FGW have done up theirs to an exceptional quality, ATW's are nice too, hardly poor stock, they just aren't the best when your in Northern's situation.



Indeed, all services along the Yorkshire coast (HUL-SCA) are booked for 158 operations, as well as many from Sheffield towards Hull.

Oh, i agree with you. Ride wise, they are very comfortable trains. Most 150/1's are getting quite dirty and scruffy in the inside. And I hate the seating arrangements in them

 

[yorksrob]

Oh, i agree with you. Ride wise, they are very comfortable trains. Most 150/1's are getting quite dirty and scruffy in the inside. And I hate the seating arrangements in them

The seating arrangements of the 150's tend to be better suited for suburban travel, although I find there are some without airline seating that I prefer to many units. Northern have started refurbing some of these as well (found one recently on the Settle - Carlisle of all places) and they they are looking very nice - although they could have done with fitting some small drinks tables IMO.

 

[strange6]

The seating arrangements of the 150's tend to be better suited for suburban travel, although I find there are some without airline seating that I prefer to many units. Northern have started refurbing some of these as well (found one recently on the Settle - Carlisle of all places) and they they are looking very nice - although they could have done with fitting some small drinks tables IMO.

Yes, i agree. I just don't like how you get the groups of 2 seats facing each other. The trains get filled up quite quickly in that configuration around manchester.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, i agree. I just don't like how you get the groups of 2 seats facing each other. The trains get filled up quite quickly in that configuration around manchester.

Yes, I suppose it's the old more standing room versus additional seats problem. I prefer the facing seats but then again I tend to travel back quite late in the day so overcrowding isn't such a problem.

 

[317666]

Northern Sprinters are officially the best because they're the most knackered And that goes for all classes.

 

[BestWestern]

I last rode on Northern stock a couple of years back, B'pool Nth - Lime St, and the stock was pretty grotty inside. A 156 with what looked like it could easily have been it's original interior - green, blue and brown :-/ - and an equally retro 150/1 on the return. I think FGW's refurb shows that pretty much any of these old units can be done to a decent standard (even Pacers!), but I presume that Northern are under constant pressure regarding stock availability, and of course they have a very big fleet to get through. Is there an actual refurb strategy at Northern or is it done 'as and when'?

 

[37372]

Sounds like you had some of the half-assed Northern 158 refurbs then, the 158/8s.
158784/787/790-797 and 158901-158910 were all done up quite nicely inside (refurbs partly funded by WYPTE and Yorkshire Forward), but when it came to doing the 158/8s they replaced the seat covers and thats it. They still have manky old upholstry from the 90s/early 00s, lots of flip down tables have been snapped off, and some units still have Wessex or Welsh signage inside them. Quite dissappointing really, these units tend to operate some of the flagship routes in the Northern network, it doesn't send out a very good message.

 

[BestWestern]

The overall image a visitor gets of Northern seems to be one of a tired, overworked operation. It's a shame that the standard of the stock seems to be such a low priority, but then I suppose we can all appreciate the capacity/expansion problems which continue to stifle the franchise. Hell of a contrast when you look at an EMT 156/153/158 though! :cry:

 

[strange6]

The overall image a visitor gets of Northern seems to be one of a tired, overworked operation. It's a shame that the standard of the stock seems to be such a low priority, but then I suppose we can all appreciate the capacity/expansion problems which continue to stifle the franchise. Hell of a contrast when you look at an EMT 156/153/158 though! :cry:

Indeed and I feel a little sorry for Northern. There was only a letter this week in the Wigan Evening Post when some chap wrote in questioning how Northern had won the TOC of the year award. he went on to complain about a whole host of things including how dirty and worn looking most of their trains were.

 

[387star]

To be fair they did a mighty fine job with the ex FNW 156s

 

[strange6]

To be fair they did a mighty fine job with the ex FNW 156s

I agree. It just seems to be their 150's that let them down. 142's are nearly always spotless and very clean

 

[387star]

I thought all 150/1s had been repainted and recieved new upholstery whilst now work has begun on the ex-FNW 150/2s. I think the ex Central and Alphaline 158 (both Wessex and Wales and Borders= same interior) units are the worst because the carpet not only dosen't match but is worn through

I heard somewhere ex Mersey 142s are getting new upholstery too

 

[northwichcat]

The problem with the new seat covers on most of Northern's units is that when they were fitted either the seats weren't fitted back properly afterwards or the seats can no longer be fitted back properly so there are a lot of loose seats around.

They've still not done anything about the 142s which didn't get the bike/luggage rack and replacement floor covering because they were due to be scrapped when the Olham Loop was closed to heavy rail.

 

[driver9000]

I heard somewhere ex Mersey 142s are getting new upholstery too

So far I think 142042 is the only former MerseyRail set to have new seat covers. The vast majority if not all of the former NW 'bus' seated sets have been done, none of the ATN sets have been done.

 

[yorksrob]

I find the Northern stock west of the Pennines does tend to be of a lower quality generally. This might be because we don't have the trams to spend our money on in W Yorks.

 

[northwichcat]

I find the Northern stock west of the Pennines does tend to be of a lower quality generally. This might be because we don't have the trams to spend our money on in W Yorks.

It's actually mainly down to Northern's management and nothing to do with PTEs.

The First North Western 158s went to Neville Hill and some grotty old unrefurbished 150s with the original British Rail notices on board came from Neville Hill to replace them. They looked a completely different class of train to the FNW 150s that had been fully refurbished.

Also don't forget Merseytravel secured some extra 158s for the Manchester Airport to Liverpool and Wigan to Liverpool services, but Northern told them they'd have 156s on those routes and not the 158s which would be based on the East side for maintenance reasons.

And the 158 centre cars were specifically allocated to Northern for Blackpool services, yet they spend more time on Calder Vale, Leeds-Nottingham and short local journeys in West Yorkshire.

 

[yorksrob]

It's actually mainly down to Northern's management and nothing to do with PTEs.

The First North Western 158s went to Neville Hill and some grotty old unrefurbished 150s with the original British Rail notices on board came from Neville Hill to replace them. They looked a completely different class of train to the FNW 150s that had been fully refurbished.

Also don't forget Merseytravel secured some extra 158s for the Manchester Airport to Liverpool and Wigan to Liverpool services, but Northern told them they'd have 156s on those routes and not the 158s which would be based on the East side for maintenance reasons.

And the 158 centre cars were specifically allocated for Blackpool services, yet they spend more time on Calder Vale, Leeds-Nottingham and short local journeys in West Yorkshire.

That said, we do have the three car Pacers which can make a big capacity difference and the 333's and 155's. There seem to be a surfeit of the Merseyrail Pacer's whenever I go under the hills and far away.

 

[northwichcat]

That said, we do have the three car Pacers which can make a big capacity difference and the 333's and 155's. There seem to be a surfeit of the Merseyrail Pacer's whenever I go under the hills and far away.

The GMPTE equivalent was 3 car 150s (formed by splitting up 150/2s like in the West Midlands.) However, these were reformed in to 2 car units.

The Merseytravel sponsorship on 142s ran out a long time ago. West Yorks were lucky in that when the Metro 141s sponsorship expired they were exported. However, circumstances have changed since then - passenger numbers growing and the North not getting brand new trains.

 

[yorksrob]

The GMPTE equivalent was 3 car 150s (formed by splitting up 150/2s like in the West Midlands.) However, these were reformed in to 2 car units.

The Merseytravel sponsorship on 142s ran out a long time ago. West Yorks were lucky in that when the Metro 141s sponsorship expired they were exported. However, circumstances have changed since then - passenger numbers growing and the North not getting brand new trains.

Yes, I doubt whether the 141's would have been exported had their sponsorship expired more recently. However, the current mix seems to work well. At least until they swap a load of our 15*'s which I gather is the latest plan.

 

[northwichcat]

At least until they swap a load of our 15*'s which I gather is the latest plan.

What plan's that? Northern are to lose 4x156s to EMT but there will be a number of 150s arriving at Northern. I haven't heard any plans to get rid of Sprinters and not replace with other Sprinters.

 

[yorksrob]

What plan's that? Northern are to lose 4x156s to EMT but there will be a number of 150s arriving at Northern. I haven't heard any plans to get rid of Sprinters and not replace with other Sprinters.

That's not too bad then. I didn't realise we were getting 150's in return.

 

[northwichcat]

That's not too bad then. I didn't realise we were getting 150's in return.

Northern are getting 20x150s in place of 4x156s and 3x180s. The other 142s are very likely to return as extra capacity and there are currently 150s that are 'unallocated' when the 172 delivery is complete so it's possible Northern may get more than 20x150s.