Northampton to Marylebone 1963

[grove]

The 1963 timetable shows the first train each day from Northampton to London (0420-0637) terminating at Marylebone rather than Euston. What route did it take and why?

 

[Merle Haggard]

The Sept 63 to June 64 public timetable I have (bought at the time!) shows that all early morning West Coast trains terminated at either St Pancras or Marylebone. The Northampton train was the Liverpool. The first Euston arrival was the Holyhead which was about an hour behind the Liverpool, but arrived at Euston at 0625 (i.e., before the Liverpool arrived at Marylebone). Euston was being rebuilt.
I thought at the time that they went Bletchley-Claydon but I'm not sure; it may be significant that none of these diverted trains were booked to call at Watford.
The St Pancras arrival (Barrow/ Workington/Windermere) is less clear; it had no calling points South of Crewe (which might suggest a diversion via Derby) but the Stoke connection is shown as 'via Crewe'.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It would be via Bletchley, Claydon LNE Jn, Calvert and Aylesbury.
For a period around then, a number of trains took that as a diversionary route while the WCML into Euston was being resignalled/electrified.
Most of these were overnight sleepers, don't know about that one.
Many main line trains would be diverted via Northampton anyway while work was in progress via Weedon and at Rugby.
Other WCML trains worked into St Pancras from Nuneaton via Wigston and the MML.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Most of these were overnight sleepers, don't know about that one.
Many main line trains would be diverted via Northampton anyway while work was in progress via Weedon and at Rugby.
Other WCML trains worked into St Pancras from Nuneaton via Wigston and the MML.

All overnight trains into Euston then, including the Liverpool and Holyhead mentioned, conveyed sleeping cars. The Northampton call of the Liverpool was longstanding, and continued afterwards, and the stop in the Manchester there resumed later.
Diversions via Northampton were quite often routed Castle-Duston W - Duston N - Blisworth - this route was MAS'd and partly electrified before the money ran out, and is now under the new A43.
Other scenic(?) diversions included Rugby-Leamington-Berkswell to avoid Coventry and Rugby-Stechford-Walsall-Rugeley when the TV was blocked

 

[RT4038]

The Sept 63 to June 64 public timetable I have (bought at the time!) shows that all early morning West Coast trains terminated at either St Pancras or Marylebone. The Northampton train was the Liverpool. The first Euston arrival was the Holyhead which was about an hour behind the Liverpool, but arrived at Euston at 0625 (i.e., before the Liverpool arrived at Marylebone). Euston was being rebuilt.
I thought at the time that they went Bletchley-Claydon but I'm not sure; it may be significant that none of these diverted trains were booked to call at Watford.
The St Pancras arrival (Barrow/ Workington/Windermere) is less clear; it had no calling points South of Crewe (which might suggest a diversion via Derby) but the Stoke connection is shown as 'via Crewe'.

In the 64/65 timetable some overnight trains terminated at Kensington Olympia as well.
Between Northampton and Marylebone the train would have to have gone via Bletchley-Claydon-Aylesbury. There is no other possible route, apart from very circuitous or lots of reversals?

 

[Merle Haggard]

In the 64/65 timetable some overnight trains terminated at Kensington Olympia as well.
Between Northampton and Marylebone the train would have to have gone via Bletchley-Claydon-Aylesbury. There is no other possible route, apart from very circuitous or lots of reversals?

Another poster above has confirmed the route; in my summer 1963 Western Lines WTT they just 'disappear' at Bletchley. Possibly the change to Kensington O. was when work South of Bletchley had been completed. I think that, even in GC days, there were no sleeper services into Marylebone, therefore no servicing facilities, so the diverted trains would have had to return to Willesden, that too would have been as you say circuitous and or reversals.
Almost all of these trains, as well as the diversions over now-closed routes mentioned above (to add to which, I've seen a photo of an express at Market Drayton - not sure how it got there...) were hauled by EE4s and quite heavily loaded. In the winter of 62-62, a steam loco (usually a Black 5) was coupled inside for heating 'only'. They struggled badly on the 1 in 300 through Roade with a full load in the summers when I spotted there, so the climbs on the GC would have been extremely tedious.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Almost all of these trains, as well as the diversions over now-closed routes mentioned above (to add to which, I've seen a photo of an express at Market Drayton - not sure how it got there...) were hauled by EE4s and quite heavily loaded.

The 'Pines Express' (Manchester - Bournemouth) was scheduled to run from Crewe via Market Drayton and Wellington to Birmingham SH (and on to Bournemouth via Basingstoke) in the period 1962-1967. This was after the diversion away from the S & D.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The 'Pines Express' (Manchester - Bournemouth) was scheduled to run from Crewe via Market Drayton and Wellington to Birmingham SH (and on to Bournemouth via Basingstoke) in the period 1962-1967. This was after the diversion away from the S & D.

Thank you for that- this forum is resolving a few of my minor mysteries of 50 - odd years ago.

 

[RT4038]

Another poster above has confirmed the route; in my summer 1963 Western Lines WTT they just 'disappear' at Bletchley. Possibly the change to Kensington O. was when work South of Bletchley had been completed. I think that, even in GC days, there were no sleeper services into Marylebone, therefore no servicing facilities, so the diverted trains would have had to return to Willesden, that too would have been as you say circuitous and or reversals.
Almost all of these trains, as well as the diversions over now-closed routes mentioned above (to add to which, I've seen a photo of an express at Market Drayton - not sure how it got there...) were hauled by EE4s and quite heavily loaded. In the winter of 62-62, a steam loco (usually a Black 5) was coupled inside for heating 'only'. They struggled badly on the 1 in 300 through Roade with a full load in the summers when I spotted there, so the climbs on the GC would have been extremely tedious.

Not only no servicing facilities at Marylebone, but the corresponding northbound departures at night went from Euston in the normal manner.

 

[daodao]

Not only no servicing facilities at Marylebone, but the corresponding northbound departures at night went from Euston in the normal manner.

I was under the impression that for the duration of the LNW main line electrification works from 1960-6, the Manchester-London overnight sleeper service was routed in both directions entirely via the ex-GC main line to Marylebone.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I was under the impression that for the duration of the LNW main line electrification works from 1960-6, the Manchester-London overnight sleeper service was routed in both directions entirely via the ex-GC main line to Marylebone.

Indeed - I overlooked it. In my suddenly useful 1963 timetable the 11.55 p.m. Up is shown in the 'Sleeping car Services' section. Its departure time from Piccadilly is (perhaps unhelpfully but logically) shown in the Manchester-Sheffield Vic table and its arrival in Marylebone in the Nottingham Vic- Marylebone one, in both cases with no calling points shown. It arrived at 0500. Similarly, the Down is shown, dep. 12.30 a.m. with no calling points.
The diversion of Euston sleeper services to Marylebone during electrification suddenly makes sense, thank you. Tidying up another of those long standing little mysteries - why a Manchester Euston sleeper started calling at Northampton around 1966-7.