Northampton to Ashford Int

[Foxy1980]

Hi all, first time poster here so hello to all!!
I currently every 4-6 weeks travel between these 2 stations using a Network Card leaving on a Friday night around 6pm and coming back Sunday late afternoon/evenings, I currently pay around £40 for this 2hr journey however from reading all the posts from your good selves I am thinking maybe the last 10years I have squandered lots of money during this period! I have recently looked at buying adv singles to London only from Npton, Rugby, Milton Keynes and even Wellingborough to Ashford to split the journey even though I would effectively be travelling on the same trains I would be anyhow however seem to be stumped on anything less than £34 that I can find, these typically have been by finding the following routes:

Npton to Euston - £6 single each way
St Pancras to Ashford using Net Card - approx £22
(This is effectively just taking out the LU fare which I do not even use due to its close proximity to eachother on this route)

A typical journey would be the 18:25 into Euston around an hour later, quick hop to St Pancras for 19:42 to Ashford arriving at 20:20
And return 16:43 to arrive into St P at 17:21 and then either take the 18:34 LM or 18:40 VT to MK should I miss this and then arrive to Npton at 18:43.

My recent searches from W'boro I found a train out for £12 single adv all the way to Ashford but with a slightly lengthy wait in St P which was brilliant, however I could not get one back for the Sunday for love not money, could anyone help me? I do not mind making my way to W'boro if this saves me more in the long run.....

Basically I am still looking to take the same trains I normally do and take the 2hr time rather than 2hrs 30 it keeps telling me on NR website but for a reduced price, as even with bringing the "transfer time" down in the advance settings option on the site does still not let you make the connection/booking as 1 journey so hence me having to split this, is there another site or a way around this issue or are all London Terminus have a minimum 15 minute transfer time or something? I know Birmingham New Street from memory is something like 7 minutes.....

Any help would be most appreciated

 

[island]

Are you aware that with an advance ticket you are not tied to any specific service from St Pancakes to Kent? You must use the journey you booked from London to Northampton/Corby/Wellingborough/wherever though.

The system is set to allow specific transfer times to cross London, but these are often far longer than you really need. The downside is that if when travelling from Ashford Intl to Northampton you take a later than recommended service from Ashford and it gets delayed causing you to miss the onward train, you've got to buy a new ticket.

 

[cuccir]

Welcome to the forums.

Have you tried using other websites to search for tickets? I'm a fan of East Coast, but you should also check East Midlands Trains as they're the company you're travelling with. There seems to be a small discount on these tickets if booking through EMT as well. Generally, I'd recommend searching on a few websites, as you'll see that they use different booking engines and therefore sometimes come up with slightly different results, particularly with regards to Advance tickets.

Picking a forthcoming weekend (8th & 10 March), there seem to be Advances out on the 18:35 from Wellingbrough for £16 taking 2h15 and back on the 16:13 from Ashford International for £25.50 taking 1h45: the time difference seems to be because of the connection times, which are unavoidable on Advance fares I'm afraid.

Looking a little further into the future, the cheaper £12 fares are available on the way out, with tickets at £21-£25 coming back - this will be priced to reflect busier Sunday afternoon trains. You can get slightly cheaper tickets travelling back up at around 7.

There may be others who know the area better who may be able to find cheaper tickets with creative routing...

 

[Foxy1980]

Hi there,

Many thanks for your replies, no I did not know that regarding the section from St Pancakes (I like this) to Ashford, so if I was say booked on the later train but managed to make the one before then the guard would not ask me to pay for another ticket for that part of the journey, correct? Is this anywhere where I can maybe print this off or can view, or is this just public knowledge by the train guards on Southeastern?


Cuccir - I had tried East Midlands Trains yes, this is where I obtained the £12 single for a few weeks time for example going from Wellingborough, however I had not thought to use East Coast due to this not being the actual train company I would be travelling on, I will check this out and see if they offer anything more suitable, mainly on the Sunday.

Otherwise yes hopefully someone with their "creative hat on" maybe able to suggest another way

Thanks again

PS: Also I may be starting a new job in a few months which will involve a commute to London from either Northampton or Wellingborough, does anyone know the best/cheapest way this would be to buy this?
I read an excellent thread the other day about buying on another route but from Ramsgate to Earlswood which saved the end user around £1500 a year buying this way rather than the simple Ramsgate-London via HS1

 

[John @ home]

I did not know that regarding the section from St Pancakes (I like this) to Ashford, so if I was say booked on the later train but managed to make the one before then the guard would not ask me to pay for another ticket for that part of the journey, correct? Is this anywhere where I can maybe print this off or can view, or is this just public knowledge by the train guards on Southeastern?

It's not quite as simple as that.

The precise rules depend on exactly which ticket you have.

For example, a £40.60 Off-Peak Return Northampton - Ashford Intl route + Any Permitted with a Network Railcard has Off-Peak Restriction 4A and also the Network Railcard time restriction. Together, this allows travel between Northampton and Ashford Intl by any train on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays, and by any train except those timed to depart Mondays - Fridays before 10:00.

On the other hand, an Advance Single Wellingborough - Ashford Intl route + AP EMT & Connect has Restriction AR, which allows travel:

Restriction Code AR

Valid on East Midlands Trains (TOC Code: EMT) and connecting services

Seat reservations are compulsory

Restrictions apply on connecting trains from Kent into London St Pancras International and vice versa via line High Speed 1 (HS1) on Mondays to Fridays as follows:

Not valid on HS1 trains timed to arrive in London St Pancras International 09:58 or earlier; and:

Not valid on HS1 trains timed to depart London St Pancras International between 16:00 and 18:59 inclusive.

In this instance, you must travel on the train shown on your seat reservation between Wellingborough and St Pancras. The St Pancras - Ashford Intl high speed trains are not reservable, so you may use any connecting service from St Pancras which complies with Restriction Code AR above.

 

[island]

There are no guards on Southeastern High Speed service, but the onboard managers will be aware that you can use any reasonable connecting service for these Advance tickets and in the highly unlikely event you get any trouble/penalty fares/other notices, please come back here and we will almost certainly be able to make them go away.

When I say "reasonable", this means that you must have some chance of making your connection (so if your booked train from Euston to Northampton is at 1700 and your high speed train gets into St Pancakes at 1655, you probably are in trouble) and you must bear in mind that break of journey isn't allowed on advance tickets, so if you are using a high speed train at 0930 and have a booked connection at 1700, then staff members may reasonably enquire into what you might be doing in between times.

The restriction AR posted by John@home above isn't publicized very well and its enforceability is questionable.

May I ask you to start a new thread regarding your commuting question to avoid mixing answers together?

 

[yorkie]

Many thanks for your replies, no I did not know that regarding the section from St Pancakes (I like this) to Ashford, so if I was say booked on the later train but managed to make the one before then the guard would not ask me to pay for another ticket for that part of the journey, correct? Is this anywhere where I can maybe print this off or can view, or is this just public knowledge by the train guards on Southeastern?

Welcome to the forum

The rule is here:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/advance_conditions.html

• If the ‘Route’ also states ‘and Connections’, travel is allowed on appropriate connecting trains where shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary.​

Also more information can be found in our RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide (This Guide is a work in progress and not yet published publicly, usually requiring 5+ posts before you can read it, but I've given you immediate access).

Here is an extract from 1.1.3 Advance tickets:

1.1.3.1.1 Multi-Leg Journeys with Connecting Trains

As stated above, advance tickets are only valid on the booked train. When there is only one leg to the journey, i.e. the whole journey is made on one train, the meaning of booked train is clear and unambiguous. However sometimes a journey on an advance ticket also involves one or more connecting trains.

A common question is:

I have a TOC & CONNECTIONS ticket. What are the rules about the train I can catch as my connection?​

The general rule is that if a reservation has been issued for the connecting trains, then they are also counted as booked trains. They have to be used, and the Advance ticket is not valid if any other train is used.

If on the other hand no reservation has been issued for the connecting train (because it doesn't offer reservations), then you are free to use an alternative connecting train, provided both these conditions are met:

• you still allow the minimum connection time for the relevant station when changing between trains. (The Minimum Connection Times for all stations may be viewed at brtimes.com - type in the station required, select "Station Info Only" and click on Search. When making a cross-London journey by Underground, the minimum connection time is the sum of the times for the arrival and departure stations, plus the cross-London transfer time.)
• the alternative connecting train does not offer reservations either. (This can be checked by looking up the relevant departure or arrival at brtimes.com - any train that has neither a diamond symbol nor R symbol beneath it is not reservable.)

For a more detailed technical explanation of the issues surrounding reservations on connecting trains, see Section 1.2.2.2​

As for your separate question, I suggest cut & pasting it out of this thread and into a new thread, to avoid confusion.

Note: "best way" is subjective, and "cheapest" is often longer (in terms of journey time).

 

[Foxy1980]

Many thanks for all your comments guys, is really appreciated! Does just go to show by using various sites you can save a number of pennies and knowing the rules/regulations, my next trip to Kent shall be done using these methods and I will post a new one on the Season Ticket