Northallerton Low Level - Would Platforms Really Work?

[wensley]

Mentioned in another thread, and something I have researched heavily for academic reasons, would platforms on the Longlands Loop and Northallerton help ease congestion, and increase capacity at this point, where the railway returns to 2-track running north towards Darlington.

I am willing to post my report once the references are finished but I thought people may wish to discuss the issue and I'm happy to share my research as well The main problem is conflict between trains using Northallerton High Jn to take the Eaglescliffe Line, and how they should be pathed to avoid conflict with express services, all of which currently must run over the section of line between Northallerton High Jn and Longlands Jn.

Anybody got any thoughts on the matter?

 

[DarloRich]

I have often thought about this. have there been platforms on these lines in the distant past?

To my mind you would need to put the platfroms somewhere in the oblong of land between the Romanby Road/Ainderby Road level Crossing and the Boroughbridge Road Level Crossing . I think any platforms would have to be next to exisiting carparks to allow easy access to the upper level platforms.

Whilst there is space on the up side i think you would struggle to fit a platform on the down side. The houses there are very close to the line. I think they could fit, just that it would be very tight. I suppose you could put them on the old Arla site but that means crossing a road to reach the high level station.

I assume there would be basic facilities on these platforms, but you would need an access bridge and lifts to comply with current legislation. You would also need an accessable route from the main station to the lower level.

 

[YorkshireBear]

From what i know of area and google maps, (not sure if this is agreeing with DarloRich) you would have to put it on the south side of current station before the lines come together. With good access to existing station you would be fine, but that is the essential part of it. Good access to existing station.

 

[Darandio]

I have often thought about this. have there been platforms on these lines in the distant past?

Yes, in the long distant past there was a Northallerton Low Level station which then closed. Then during WW2, temporary platforms were reinstated on the low level as an emergency alternative should the main station be damaged in an attack.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, in the long distant past there was a Northallerton Low Level station which then closed. Then during WW2, temporary platforms were reinstated on the low level as an emergency alternative should the main station be damaged in an attack.

I thought I had seen pictures of these platforms

 

[Ploughman]

There was also an emergency rail bridge installed across the Wensleydale link so trains could be diverted on to the loop and regain the main line at the North end.
It was rolled into position if required. No trains could pass under due to clearance of about 4 ft or less.

 

[wensley]

The permanent low level platforms closed in 1911.
The Up Platform would have to be between Boroughbridge Rd but, as stated, the new houses close to the Down Longlands, means the Down Platform would need to be situated on the old dairy car park. Boroughbridge Road CCTV could be used for level access...

 

[flymo]

There is some info on the low level station and line on the ever helpful Disused Stations website. Interesting history at Northallerton, somethings I never realised.

 

[Waverley125]

in terms of enhancing ECML & TPE capacity, does anyone know whether a recent CBR analysis has been done on this? Adding platforms to the existing low level avoiding lines between Boroughbridge & Ainderby Roads (accessible through the current carpark) would allow TPE, GC & Local services to Middlesbrough to call at Northallerton without blocking the ECML, leaving the current (high level) platforms solely for EC & XC services.

 

[caliwag]

Used to exist of course: there was an excellent photo article in Back Track (I think) last year or so...sorry to be so vague.

 

[142094]

I do believe wensley off here knows a good deal about this subject (apologies if it isn't wensley). Although a good idea, as it would mean some through services would not have to slow down or stop when a TPE/GC service is in the platform, for one TPE per hour and a handful of GC services, I can't see there being a high rate of return.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Yes there used to be a second station in Northallerton, by Low Gates Level Crossing, the building that currently houses Court Homemakers is the old low level station on the Leeds & Stockton. Charlie Browns/Motorpoint/whatever it used to be called was in the goods shed.
Where the car park is now used to be Northallerton shed (51J for those who like shed numbers!), Im not sure there ever were platforms between Boroughbridge and Ainderby Road LCs. Is there enough room on the down side for one, there is up side due to the car park?

You would also have the issue of the barriers being down for the duration of the stop, making the current traffic issues even worse...

 

[GNERman]

Yep, Wensley is the man with the knowledge, as it is his home station!

The two of us have spoken about this in the past, as it would relieve a good amount of traffic from the High Level. However, another plan for the Northallerton area is to sort out the "Northallerton Tunnel", ie where the Up and Down Longlands Lines go under the Up and Down Mains, as currently containers can't use the avoider, and must use the Up and Down Loop instead, however, to sort this would probably require single tracking under the ECML, so it's not easy either way...

 

[John55]

Yes there used to be a second station in Northallerton, by Low Gates Level Crossing, the building that currently houses Court Homemakers is the old low level station on the Leeds & Stockton. Charlie Browns/Motorpoint/whatever it used to be called was in the goods shed.
Where the car park is now used to be Northallerton shed (51J for those who like shed numbers!), Im not sure there ever were platforms between Boroughbridge and Ainderby Road LCs. Is there enough room on the down side for one, there is up side due to the car park?

You would also have the issue of the barriers being down for the duration of the stop, making the current traffic issues even worse...

Can I suggest a quick visit to the always informative Disused Stations website where some confusion may be resolved. http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/n/northallerton_low_level/index.shtml

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I lived at Leeming for nearly 20 years and I never knew about that one!! It didnt last long though!! It was rebuilt during the war as there was an avoider built, with a trick bridge over the Wensleydale line. The trackbed can still be seen at Castle Hills Junction.

 

[DarloRich]

we talked about this recently on here didnt we? It used to be my home station too but Wensley is the expert!

My concern is the link between the high and low level platforms for mobility impared persons. There are steps form the new car park to the north bound platform but the roadway is steep.

EDIT - here is the link! http://178.18.116.142/showthread.php?t=59141

 

[142094]

Probably similar to the set up at Retford, where the low level platforms are a short walk away from the main station, and there is only disabled access to the Lincoln-bound platform.

 

[Waverley125]

Of course, in terms of service numbers and whether it's worth it, it would allow for greater provision of services than is currently the case. I think there's a very reasonable case for TPE services into Sunderland, and additional services to Middlesbrough. In an ideal world (before any jumps on me), I wouldn't mind seeing both Sunderland & Middlesbrough on both TPE & XC networks, as well as with their own London services, which would create much more need for something like this at Northallerton.

 

[yorkie]

It would certainly ease congestion by reducing conflicting movements and allowing trains heading towards Sunderland/Middlesbrough to call without blocking the main line.

I suspect, however, it will be too expensive for the benefits.

There is some info on the low level station and line on the ever helpful Disused Stations website. Interesting history at Northallerton, somethings I never realised.

Yep, superb site that!

we talked about this recently on here didnt we? It used to be my home station too but Wensley is the expert!

My concern is the link between the high and low level platforms for mobility impared persons. There are steps form the new car park to the north bound platform but the roadway is steep.

EDIT - here is the link! http://178.18.116.142/showthread.php?t=59141

Indeed, I've merged the threads. (though I recommend linking to www.railforums.co.uk rather than 178.18.116.142 or even railforums.co.uk as otherwise anyone who clicks the link won't be logged in)

We do get a lot of duplication, so if anyone who posts a new thread can do a search first that would be greatly appreciated (and reduce moderators workload ), I know the built-in search isn't great, so sometimes it's best to use Google (using the criteria site:www.railforums.co.uk)

 

[142094]

Of course, in terms of service numbers and whether it's worth it, it would allow for greater provision of services than is currently the case. I think there's a very reasonable case for TPE services into Sunderland, and additional services to Middlesbrough. In an ideal world (before any jumps on me), I wouldn't mind seeing both Sunderland & Middlesbrough on both TPE & XC networks, as well as with their own London services, which would create much more need for something like this at Northallerton.

Not sure if GC would like TPE running through to Sunderland, and I doubt there is the capacity at Sunderland any more when trying to include Metros in the mix.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Yes there are steps but there is also the foot and vehicle access to the upper car park, though how much longer that will be there for depeding on the Wensleydale's plans for accessing Northallerton.
As an aside, one option for the WR is to swing round to a low level platform opposite the old dairy site... could tie in with new NR low level platforms...

 

[tbtc]

Not sure if GC would like TPE running through to Sunderland

Are you suggesting that GC would be jealously protecting their ORCATS revenue from Sunderland to York/beyond?

Sunderland is a big place to have such rubbish long distance services (compared to Northallerton, which is tiny but has a much better long distance service) - if it weren't for the Metro messing things up I'd suggest that the Durham Coast line got a regular link to further afield. However, as you say, with the Metro there, the scope is significantly limited.

 

[142094]

Are you suggesting that GC would be jealously protecting their ORCATS revenue from Sunderland to York/beyond?

I bet GC wouldn't be operating much longer if TPE did extend their services!

Sunderland is a big place to have such rubbish long distance services (compared to Northallerton, which is tiny but has a much better long distance service) - if it weren't for the Metro messing things up I'd suggest that the Durham Coast line got a regular link to further afield. However, as you say, with the Metro there, the scope is significantly limited.

In some respects I think that Sunderland has decent links, plus can get more if going via Newcastle. One thing that is a shame is that the second island platform was not brought back into use, which could then be used by a terminating service without impacting on the Metro.

 

[tbtc]

I bet GC wouldn't be operating much longer if TPE did extend their services!

True

In some respects I think that Sunderland has decent links, plus can get more if going via Newcastle. One thing that is a shame is that the second island platform was not brought back into use, which could then be used by a terminating service without impacting on the Metro.

You've got roughly a quarter of a million people with just an hourly 156 to Hexham/ Newcastle/ Hartlepool/ Middlesbrough plus a handful of GC services a day - unless you time it for the GC services then the only way to leave the North East is to change at Newcastle - plenty of connections are available but there are only four services a day from Sunderland to York - Newcastle has more than that in a typical hour!

But I'm going off topic here, I know...

 

[142094]

Mainly 142s (so patronage sounds even better!). Sunderland is a funny old station, probably the best thing would be to start again.

 

[MarkyT]

Anybody got any thoughts on the matter?

A good solution for rationalising Northallerton would remove the level crossings, allow the container trains to use the fly under north of the station, as well as remove some platform stops on the fast lines. Such a more integrated solution might be more viable.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

the only problem with that plan MarkyT is there is now a woman's refuge in the way where you have a suggested new chord...

 

[MarkyT]

the only problem with that plan MarkyT is there is now a building in the way where you have a suggested new chord...

Current Google Streetview image shows a site under construction south of the A167 opposite the NR depot between the level crossing and the bridge. The aerial view shows buildings completed, and it looks like a line could be squeezed in there . . .

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

No chance... Up until middle of last year I worked for GC, and until November 2007 I lived at leeming and went past there an awful lot!!
The refuge building leaves no room for anything, as it is quite near to the boundary of the low level avoider, and up against the foot of the main line embankment.
Wensley will be able to give more details.

There used to be a line round the back of the current Platform 2, the bridge shows evidence of this...

 

[MarkyT]

No chance... Up until middle of last year I worked for GC, and until November 2007 I lived at leeming and went past there an awful lot!!
The building leaves no room for anything, as it is quite near to the boundary of the low level avoider, and up against the foot of the main line embankment.
Wensley will be able to give more details.

There used to be a line round the back of the current Platform 2, the bridge shows evidence of this...

This was the sort of alignment i was thinking of . . .