North Wales Shenanigans

[SprinterMan]

Hello, just a few questions about odd operations on the North Wales Coast line.

On a Sunday, aside from a few trains to Birmingham and Cardiff like on a weekday, all Arriva trains go to Crewe, except one which goes to Manchester. Why does this train go to Manchester instead of Crewe? Surely it would make sense to have it fit the regular service pattern, especially with engineering work.


During the week, the last Eastbound train from Bangor always departs to Crewe at 2106, yet on a Sunday night there is an additional 2209 service to Chester. Why doesn't this service run during the week, as quite a few people making local journeys would find it very useful indeed.


Does anyone know why there are so many timetable variations this week? Is it something to do with Christmas?


Also, does anyone know what services into Birmingham are operated by 175s? I am aware of the Llandudno train during the week (and the train that it is formed from), but apparently there are also some workings on Sunday night? Any idea what these are?

Thanks very much for any info

Adam

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why would you begrudge the stations called at from Chester to Manchester by this single direct service such as this one that you have provided in your link ?

 

[SprinterMan]

Why would you begrudge the stations called at from Chester to Manchester by this single direct service such as this one that you have provided in your link ?

I'm not begrudging them it, I am just wondering why it exists. Anyway, because of engineering work, this service will start running non-stop via Altrincham in the near future anyways.

Adam

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Anyway, because of engineering work, this service will start running non-stop via Altrincham in the near future anyway.

Just because this will run non-stop, as you say, via Altrincham, what sections of the mid-Cheshire line have sectional speed restrictions that will cause timing problems ? It is not a route that I would normally associate passenger train non-stop running upon.

 

[merlodlliw]

The Manchester run caters for ferry traffic & as many pax go to Manchester for onward travel North as Crewe from North Wales. More Manchester's would be welcome on Sundays.

I am always interested in the three VTs to Euston one after another with no ATW in between on Sundays.

 

[Welshman]

Actually there is another Sunday service from Holyhead to Manchester, though not advertised as such.

Whenever I've used the 0845 Holyhead to Crewe, it has been formed of two units, dividing at Chester into the 1036 to Manchester Piccadilly and the 1039 to Crewe.

But I agree with the original poster that the pattern of the NW Coast Sunday service is entirely different from the weekday one. It's rather like it was in FNW days, before the decision to send so many trains to Cardiff.

Chester-Manchester diversions along the Mid-Cheshire line are planned for 6 Sundays early in the New Year, and I find it's a pleasant change to go that way and to use the main part of Piccadilly station rather than platforms 13 or 14. The only operating constraints seem to be the single track between Mickle Trafford and Mouldsworth, and through Navigation Road now that Metrolink uses the other track. But, regardless of these, Chester-Manchester timings are roughly the same for non-stop trains via the Mid-Cheshire as they are for stopping via Helsby.

 

[krus_aragon]

But I agree with the original poster that the shape of the NW Coast Sunday service is entirely different from the weekday one. It's rather like it was in FNW days, before the decision to send so many trains to Cardiff.

The Sunday service was not recast when ATW introduced their clockface timetable back in 2003(?). The daily Holyhead to Manchester service (and MAN-HHD) survived this change, but was dropped a few years later in the Monday-Saturday timetables. This Sunday service is all that remains of the old Irish Mancunian service that was timed to meet the ferry in days of yore.

 

[SprinterMan]

The Sunday service was not recast when ATW introduced their clockface timetable back in 2003(?). The daily Holyhead to Manchester service (and MAN-HHD) survived this change, but was dropped a few years later in the Monday-Saturday timetables. This Sunday service is all that remains of the old Irish Mancunian service that was timed to meet the ferry in days of yore.

Oh right, thanks, kinda nice this old relic exists then :P

Anyone know anything about the other things?

Also, why does the 0805 Holyhead to Cardiff wait at Bangor for 20 minutes (!) Monday to Friday? It starts later and only waits for a few minutes on a Saturday.

Adam

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Also, does anyone know what services into Birmingham are operated by 175s? I am aware of the Llandudno train during the week (and the train that it is formed from), but apparently there are also some workings on Sunday night? Any idea what these are?

Thanks very much for any info

Adam

The opentraintimes says that it is based on a 158 and not a 175

 

[Welshman]

Oh right, thanks, kinda nice this old relic exists then :P

Anyone know anything about the other things?

Also, why does the 0805 Holyhead to Cardiff wait at Bangor for 20 minutes (!) Monday to Friday? It starts later and only waits for a few minutes on a Saturday.

Adam

As it calls by request at all stations on Anglesey, I'll hazard a guess it conveys school/college/university pupils who need to be in Bangor for 9am.
It then waits until 0902 to fit-in with the normal x02/x07 pattern of services to Cardiff.

However, on Saturdays it does not need to leave Holyhead earlier.

 

[SprinterMan]

The opentraintimes says that it is based on a 158 and not a 175

Yeah, but that is only what it is timed for. It is known to be diagrammed for a 175

As it calls by request at all stations on Anglesey, I'll hazard a guess it conveys school/college/university pupils who need to be in Bangor for 9am.
It then waits until 0902 to fit-in with the normal x02/x07 pattern of services to Cardiff.

However, on Saturdays it does not need to leave Holyhead earlier.

Wow, never thought of that, thanks

Adam

 

[Welshman]

Also, does anyone know what services into Birmingham are operated by 175s? I am aware of the Llandudno train during the week (and the train that it is formed from), but apparently there are also some workings on Sunday night? Any idea what these are?

Sorry - I missed that part of your query:-

According to an article by Robin James and Robert Pritchard in December's "Today's Railways", the Sunday 1825 Holyhead-Birmingham International and 2240 return are diagrammed for 175/1 units.

 

[Statto]

The Manchester express connects with the Irish Ferries at Holyhead & been in the timetable as long as i can remember.

Quite odd to see though when the Pendolino is being hauled by a Diesel loco as the line is not Wired.

 

[Michael.Y]

The Manchester express connects with the Irish Ferries at Holyhead & been in the timetable as long as i can remember.

Quite odd to see though when the Pendolino is being hauled by a Diesel loco as the line is not Wired.

Pendolino drags have ceased. They are now 10-car Voyagers weeklong.

 

[SprinterMan]

Sorry - I missed that part of your query:-

According to an article by Robin James and Robert Pritchard in December's "Today's Railways", the Sunday 1825 Holyhead-Birmingham International and 2240 return are diagrammed for 175/1 units.

Oh excellent, thank you

 

[merlodlliw]

Pendolino drags have ceased. They are now 10-car Voyagers weeklong.

Yes the end of the old timetable ended them, however they ceased a week early due to usual problems the previous week.

 

[SprinterMan]

Yes the end of the old timetable ended them, however they ceased a week early due to usual problems the previous week.

It's a shame that because of this and the WAG upgrade that we no longer get 57s at Holyhead, but the drags were so unreliable they did need to stop. 5 times did I try to travel on the 1507 BNG-EUS, but only twice did a 57 turn up. :P

Does anyone know anything about the late night Eastbound SuO train, and why it doesn't run during the week?

Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

It's a shame that because of this and the WAG upgrade that we no longer get 57s at Holyhead, but the drags were so unreliable they did need to stop. 5 times did I try to travel on the 1507 BNG-EUS, but only twice did a 57 turn up. :P

Does anyone know anything about the late night Eastbound SuO train, and why it doesn't run during the week?

Adam

It used to run Sun/Fri, as for the Drag, No doubt VT got fed-up having a voyager on standby at Crewe, and of course the drag had to have two drivers.
The Pendo Drag was for training, but the 57s were so unreliable it was in the end a 50 50 chance of the drag running, it was only a matter of time before it was killed off and of course to many pax missing the ferry or other commitments