North TransPennine Changes (particularly Middlesbrough)

[Starmill]

I don't believe we have a thread to discuss this specifically, but it has been slightly hinted at in a post by kwvr45 which I cannot now find.

It seems that from Monday 24th October the service from Middlesbrough is becoming rather less desirable as part of a package of changes to permit more trains to and from Newcastle, although it seems these will not begin until the December timetable change on Sunday 11th December... which seems a bit odd.

At present, from Middlesbrough, North TP trains are as follows:

0555 Manchester Airport
0631 Liverpool Lime Street
0715 Manchester Airport
0827 Manchester Airport
0927 Manchester Airport
1027 Manchester Airport
1127 Manchester Airport
1227 Manchester Airport
1327 Manchester Airport
1427 Manchester Airport
1527 Manchester Airport
1626 Manchester Airport
1726 Manchester Airport
1827 Manchester Airport
1930 York
2052 Leeds
2150 York

However, from 24/10 they will be

0555 Manchester Airport
0631 Liverpool Lime Street
0715 Manchester Airport
0827 Manchester Airport
0946 Manchester Airport
1049 Manchester Airport
1146 Manchester Airport
1244 Manchester Airport
1349 Manchester Airport
1427 York
1527 York
1626 Manchester Airport
1726 Manchester Airport
1827 Manchester Airport
1930 York
2052 Leeds
2150 York

Can anyone explain what this is in aid of? It appears to be swapping the paths between some York <> Manchester Airport and some Middlesbrough <> Manchester Airport trains, but also splitting some of these at York. There are still 17 trains a day and the first and last remain at the same time... but it does seem very odd to make a clock face timetable so 'lumpy' between timetable changes. The 1527 that gets split 'misses itself' leaving an invalid 2 minute connection or a 20 minute connection at York onto the Scarborough to Liverpool train, which extends the journey time significantly. The 1524 York to Manchester Airport has been deleted completely... why? This train at 1553 from Leeds is very busy and this leaves a gap in trains to Piccadilly of more than half an hour. Garforth also suffers the loss of this train without a replacement.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I don't see it as being that much of a problem personally. Even for those trains only going as far as York, the next services from Newcastle and Scarborough (as well as those starting at York) will be along shortly after.

The removal of the 1553 departure from Leeds may cause issues however the next service (1608 to Liverpool) is booked for a 6 car 185 which will improve the potential capacity issue slightly.

 

[SeanG]

Doesn't Newcastle already have an hourly TPE service?
I didn't think the half hourly came in until a few years' time. If so, what is the service increase?

 

[swt_passenger]

Doesn't Newcastle already have an hourly TPE service?
I didn't think the half hourly came in until a few years' time. If so, what is the service increase?

There's definitely also a small increase of about 4 extra trains each way this December, as seen in one of last year's four track access applications and discussed in a couple of existing threads, e.g. here where I mentioned it in the 2016 timetable changes thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2629258&postcount=3

 

[Class 170101]

I don't believe we have a thread to discuss this specifically, but it has been slightly hinted at in a post by kwvr45 which I cannot now find.

It seems that from Monday 24th October the service from Middlesbrough is becoming rather less desirable as part of a package of changes to permit more trains to and from Newcastle, although it seems these will not begin until the December timetable change on Sunday 11th December... which seems a bit odd.

At present, from Middlesbrough, North TP trains are as follows:

0555 Manchester Airport
0631 Liverpool Lime Street
0715 Manchester Airport
0827 Manchester Airport
0927 Manchester Airport
1027 Manchester Airport
1127 Manchester Airport
1227 Manchester Airport
1327 Manchester Airport
1427 Manchester Airport
1527 Manchester Airport
1626 Manchester Airport
1726 Manchester Airport
1827 Manchester Airport
1930 York
2052 Leeds
2150 York

However, from 24/10 they will be

0555 Manchester Airport
0631 Liverpool Lime Street
0715 Manchester Airport
0827 Manchester Airport
0946 Manchester Airport
1049 Manchester Airport
1146 Manchester Airport
1244 Manchester Airport
1349 Manchester Airport
1427 York
1527 York
1626 Manchester Airport
1726 Manchester Airport
1827 Manchester Airport
1930 York
2052 Leeds
2150 York

The above only lasts about 6 weeks
The 14:27 and 15:27 run through to Manchester Airport from December Timetable change.

 

[1D53]

It's part of making the timetable more resilient in Autumn.

 

[yorksrob]

Are there any changes towards Middlesbrough? I'm always a bit worried about connections towards Whitby, which can be "awkward".

 

[6Gman]

It's part of making the timetable more resilient in Autumn.

So basically leaf fall contingency?

 

[Paul Duck]

Yep it's all to do with leaf fall. The extra Newcastle Manchester services from decemeber are interesting as they have different stopping patterns on the northern end. Some services call at York-Durham-Newcastle. Then some York-Darlington-Newcastle. wIll see how changes to Middlesbrough services pan out from October to December timetable change.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are there any changes towards Middlesbrough? I'm always a bit worried about connections towards Whitby, which can be "awkward".

No changes in this direction or to any services on Saturdays in either direction. Your Whitby connection is safe for now