North Downs Line Service Decline - Again

[Deepgreen]

My previous thread on this topic has been closed, so here we go again. Today so far has seen the worst day yet in the recent decline in service on the route, with many trains being cancelled. Things had seemingly settled down again a while back after a dire period of cancellations, but the decline has recently begun again. Today's seem to be mostly staff-related according to RTT. Is it simply the case that the service will continue to decline as no new/different stock seems to be available (even any potential cascading of 'Turbos' from the 175s' arrival in the west looks to be receding, given their dire performance), with the staff problems being an ongoing issue, and seemingly insoluble?

 

[TastyMaltesers]

Yesterday's disruption was largely a direct consequence of the sad fatality at Twyford severely displacing crew.

 

[Deepgreen]

Yesterday's disruption was largely a direct consequence of the sad fatality at Twyford severely displacing crew.

Thanks for that information, but the service has nevertheless been declining steadily again of late.

 

[Snow1964]

GWR have recently updated their performance figures on their website for most recent 4 weeks

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/publications/performance-report/gwr-performance-report-period-2705.pdf

All Cancellations : GWR overall 7.02%, North Downs subset 9.33%
GWR caused canx : GWR overall 3.95%, North Downs subset 6.61%

Punctuality: GWR overall 51.96%, North Downs subset 54.18%
More relaxed within 3 mins : GWR overall 69.39%, North Downs 74.12%

GWR with diabolical cancellation rates. 1 in 15 locally due to their failures.
Of the trains that ran, nearly half trains not on time, over 30% not within 3 mins

Depending on how complimentary you wish to be, somewhere between awful and abysmal.

 

[Deepgreen]

GWR have recently updated their performance figures on their website for most recent 4 weeks

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/publications/performance-report/gwr-performance-report-period-2705.pdf

All Cancellations : GWR overall 7.02%, North Downs subset 9.33%
GWR caused canx : GWR overall 3.95%, North Downs subset 6.61%

Punctuality: GWR overall 51.96%, North Downs subset 54.18%
More relaxed within 3 mins : GWR overall 69.39%, North Downs 74.12%

GWR with diabolical cancellation rates. 1 in 15 locally due to their failures.
Of the trains that ran, nearly half trains not on time, over 30% not within 3 mins

Depending on how complimentary you wish to be, somewhere between awful and abysmal.

I don't know whether to be glad that the stats back up my assumptions/observations, or in despair about the seemingly managed decline!

 

[DelW]

A lot of GWR's problems stem from shortage of stock, in turn caused by DfT mandating the Castle HSTs being put off-lease when their replacements (the 175s) were - and are - nowhere near ready for passenger service.

That might account for some or all of the cancellations, but not the poor punctuality, unless short formed trains are causing station delays due to overcrowding. But that wouldn't be the case on the North Downs, where short forms aren't possible as it's 3 car maximum anyway.

The 2tph to Gatwick timetable was intended to boost airport traffic, but that's a market where reliability is paramount. With the proposed expansion of Gatwick supposedly being mitigated by the provision of improved public transport access, GWR needs to do much better for that to be effective.

 

[Envoy]

So with an unreliable Reading to Gatwick service, does that mean passengers have the right to travel via London with a North Downs route ticket?

 

[Watershed]

So with an unreliable Reading to Gatwick service, does that mean passengers have the right to travel via London with a North Downs route ticket?

If their train is cancelled then under the new ticket acceptance arrangements in force as of next week, yes. However you'd to pay separately to cross London if your ticket was otherwise only valid on the North Downs Line (e.g. it was routed "via Gomshall") since TfL aren't party to the new DfTO ticket acceptance policy.

 

[Envoy]

If their train is cancelled then under the new ticket acceptance arrangements in force as of next week, yes. However you'd to pay separately to cross London if your ticket was otherwise only valid on the North Downs Line (e.g. it was routed "via Gomshall") since TfL aren't party to the new DfTO ticket acceptance policy.

Many thanks Watershed for the swift response. I hope warming announcements are made on trains approaching Reading in the event that the North Downs trains to Gatwick are not running & passengers have the right to travel via London - likewise announcements at Gatwick.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Many thanks Watershed for the swift response. I hope warming announcements are made on trains approaching Reading in the event that the North Downs trains to Gatwick are not running & passengers have the right to travel via London - likewise announcements at Gatwick.

With a half-hourly North Downs service and the crossing London time penalty included in journey planners it will very rarely be quicker to go via London rather than wait for the next North Downs service. So in the majority of cases announcements telling passengers to change their journey routing is not needed.

A journey via London for people travelling with luggage is also far more inconvenient.

 

[JonathanH]

With a half-hourly North Downs service and the crossing London time penalty included in journey planners it will very rarely be quicker to go via London rather than wait for the next North Downs service. So in the majority of cases announcements telling passengers to change their journey routing is not needed.

A journey via London for people travelling with luggage is also far more inconvenient.

I suspect that 'Envoy' was referring to the position where someone is already on a train going to Paddington, so they avoid the change at Reading. With the Elizabeth Line connection from Paddington to Farringdon (at additional cost) the position for passengers with luggage isn't as hard as it once was.

Whether it is feasable and incumbent on the train manager of a long distance service calling at Reading to know whether the next North Downs service is cancelled and to announce that approaching Reading is a different matter.

 

[davews]

Reading to Waterloo and change at Clapham Junction is probably quicker. I assumed years ago this was allowed, at least starting at Bracknell.

 

[Envoy]

With a half-hourly North Downs service and the crossing London time penalty included in journey planners it will very rarely be quicker to go via London rather than wait for the next North Downs service. So in the majority of cases announcements telling passengers to change their journey routing is not needed.

A journey via London for people travelling with luggage is also far more inconvenient.

But if a GWR North Downs route train is cancelled, won’t the next one be rammed due to carrying a double load as they only have 3 coaches?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 13:30 ==

I suspect that 'Envoy' was referring to the position where someone is already on a train going to Paddington, so they avoid the change at Reading. With the Elizabeth Line connection from Paddington to Farringdon (at additional cost) the position for passengers with luggage isn't as hard as it once was.

Whether it is feasable and incumbent on the train manager of a long distance service calling at Reading to know whether the next North Downs service is cancelled and to announce that approaching Reading is a different matter.

I thought that the Elizabeth Line was part of the National Rail infrastructure and that as a result, diverting passengers would not incur extra cost as they would if using the TFL underground system?

Even if the train managers on trains approaching Reading from the west can't make announcements regarding cancelled services on the North Downs route, then surely such an announcement(s) can be made at Gatwick & Reading stations advising people to travel via London?

 

[DelW]

Whether it is feasable and incumbent on the train manager of a long distance service calling at Reading to know whether the next North Downs service is cancelled and to announce that approaching Reading is a different matter.

Even if the train managers on trains approaching Reading from the west can't make announcements regarding cancelled services on the North Downs route, then surely such an announcement(s) can be made at Gatwick & Reading stations advising people to travel via London?

In my experience, TMs on trains approaching Reading from the west often do give connection info'. I've heard it given not just for Gatwick, but also to Basingstoke, Oxford (on trains from the B&H) and the Elizabeth line.

I thought that the Elizabeth Line was part of the National Rail infrastructure and that as a result, diverting passengers would not incur extra cost as they would if using the TFL underground system?

I'd have thought Paddington - Elizabeth line to Farringdon - Thameslink to Gatwick would be legitimate and probably a viable alternative in time.

 

[JonathanH]

In my experience, TMs on trains approaching Reading from the west often do give connection info'. I've heard it given not just for Gatwick, but also to Basingstoke, Oxford (on trains from the B&H) and the Elizabeth line.

Do they announce when any of those services are cancelled?

 

[DelW]

Do they announce when any of those services are cancelled?

I don't remember that happening, but surely they would? They've often given platform numbers and expected departure times, so I assume they've logged into an internal live feed, or even RTT.