Norse Atlantic: experiences and opinions?

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just been looking at Cape Town.
Norse want about £1650 for a premium round trip next January, which is about half the main airline business class fares.
(Wife refuses to travel long-haul in economy).
But I see the premium seat pitch is 43 inches, and most full-service airlines have a fully-flat 60-inch pitch.
So I might be prepared to go Norse, but my wife wouldn't.
Then there's the faff of getting to Gatwick from North Wales.
So I think we'll go Swiss/Lufthansa from Manchester, as we have done before, at a higher fare.
We used to go AF/KLM but their fares are sky high these days, as are BA/Virgin.

 

[Watershed]

Just been looking at Cape Town.
Norse want about £1650 for a premium round trip next January, which is about half the main airline business class fares.
(Wife refuses to travel long-haul in economy).
But I see the premium seat pitch is 43 inches, and most full-service airlines have a fully-flat 60-inch pitch.
So I might be prepared to go Norse, but my wife wouldn't.
Then there's the faff of getting to Gatwick from North Wales.
So I think we'll go Swiss/Lufthansa from Manchester at a higher fare.
Cheaper anyway to go to Johannesburg and then use a local flight to Cape Town or other coastal city.
We tend to tour around and do "open jaw" type trips.
Cape Town attracts very high fares, almost as bad as trans-Atlantic.

Norse's Premium competes with other airlines' premium economy; it's not a business class product in any sense. It's priced around the same as what other carriers charge for a direct flight.

Johannesburg also has considerably cheaper fares than Cape Town. An internal flight between the two is cheap and quick, so potentially worth it given the saving.

If you'd consider flying from Dublin, there are some veritable bargains to be had; premium economy to Cape Town is available from about £960 return with Air France via CDG.

Of course if convenience matters more than cost, positioning to/from a different airport at either end is admittedly not very attractive.

Trans-Atlantic fares are, in the most part, far cheaper than the average long-haul fare. There is such intense competition that fares are usually matched pound-for-pound.

 

[najaB]

Another Route Cut: Norse Atlantic Axes Paris CDG To Miami Flights

It means that, when writing, Norse's winter network from Paris CDG comprises just one route.

simpleflying.com

Norwegian 2.0's only other Winter service from Paris CDG is to New York JFK 3x weekly since LA is Summer Only. Another example of where competing with two very established carriers does not work for airlines like Norwegian 2.0.

If I was to travel with Norse again, I would pay for my ticket as close to the travel date as possible - perhaps only a day or two beforehand. They have form for cancelling routes on short notice.

 

[najaB]

Behind a paywall so I can only quote the first few lines but it seems that Norse's negotiations with a "strategic partner" have fallen through without any investment/deal:

Advanced talks to secure a new strategic investor in Norse Atlantic Airways have ended without agreement after several months of negotiations. Norse Atlantic brought in Seabury Securities as a strategic advisor in November 2023 to explore “industrial opportunities” with two unnamed airlines.

Norse Atlantic's Strategic Investor Talks Break Down | Aviation Week

Advanced talks to secure a new strategic investor in Norse Atlantic Airways have ended without agreement after several months of negotiations.

aviationweek.com

What this means for the future of the carrier is yet to be seen.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Behind a paywall so I can only quote the first few lines but it seems that Norse's negotiations with a "strategic partner" have fallen through without any investment/deal:

Norse Atlantic's Strategic Investor Talks Break Down | Aviation Week

Advanced talks to secure a new strategic investor in Norse Atlantic Airways have ended without agreement after several months of negotiations.

aviationweek.com

What this means for the future of the carrier is yet to be seen.

I hate to be pessimistic but I just can not see them making it.

 

[najaB]

I hate to be pessimistic but I just can not see them making it.

I wouldn't be surprised either if they don't last out the year. I guess it depends on how profitable this summer season is.

 

[YorkRailFan]

I wouldn't be surprised either if they don't last out the year. I guess it depends on how profitable this summer season is.

The main issue for Norwegian 2.0 is the Winter.

 

[najaB]

The main issue for Norwegian 2.0 is the Winter.

Agreed. If they have a profitable summer they'll have enough cash to pay the bills through the winter. They may well do the same as last year and deploy their fleet on winter sun destinations like the Caribbean, but they're up against Virgin and BA at the higher end, and the package holiday operators like Tui at the lower end.

 

[najaB]

Some (not unexpected) changes at Norse:

Norse Atlantic Airways is a long haul low cost carrier that launched in 2022. The airline exclusively flies Boeing 787s, and primarily operates transatlantic flights. Being a profitable low cost long haul carrier can be challenging, especially in highly seasonal markets, like across the Atlantic.

Several months ago, I wrote about the carrier’s rather disastrous 2023 financial results, which saw the airline having a net loss of $169 million on just $439 million in revenue. At the time, executives at the airline insisted that 2024 would be a turnaround year for the airline, and that they saw “a clear path to profitability on a year-round basis.”

So, how is that working out? Norse Atlantic has just revealed its financial results for the first half of 2024, and they’re not pretty. Not only that, but the airline is planning fundamental changes to its business model, which seem sensible, frankly.

How Norse Atlantic plans to transform business model
Norse Atlantic seems to finally be realizing that the current business model isn’t working great. I don’t see where the upside is for the airline at this point. I don’t think industry yields will improve anytime soon, as there’s no shortage of capacity.

As a result, Norse Atlantic has announced that it’s evolving its business strategy, “to maximize profitability and balance risks.” This entails a few things:

Norse Atlantic will increasingly grow its proportion of capacity dedicated to wet lease and charter flying; a big uptick in that kind of flying is expected as of Q4 2024, and the airline hopes at least half of its planes will operate with these agreements
Norse Atlantic hopes that more of the fleet’s capacity and revenue will be locked into long term contracts, whereby the airline will fly aircraft on behalf of other airlines for periods of multiple years
Norse Atlantic has ended the lease on three Boeing 787-8s early, so the carrier will now only fly Boeing 787-9s, to maximize fleet consistency

Norse Atlantic Updates Business Model, Reduces Fleet

Norse Atlantic Airways is continuing to hemorrhage money, and is updating its business model and reducing its fleet. Here are the details.

onemileatatime.com

Can't really say that I'm surprised, other than that it's taken this long.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Interesting, because the 2024 aircraft version of the combined volume only shows 787-9s for Norse, so they must have ended those three leases prior to 28th February this year - being the date the book was "frozen".

 

[thejuggler]

After being seriously burned last year by chartering with Maleth Aero for winter flights to the Caribbean, P&O cruises have chartered Norse for this year. I hope they are around long enough to fulfill their commitments.

 

[najaB]

After being seriously burned last year by chartering with Maleth Aero for winter flights to the Caribbean, P&O cruises have chartered Norse for this year. I hope they are around long enough to fulfill their commitments.

I can see that playing a big part in getting them through the winter. It's absolutely crazy to see how many flights come in to BGI for cruise change-over days.

 

[thejuggler]

I can see that playing a big part in getting them through the winter. It's absolutely crazy to see how many flights come in to BGI for cruise change-over days.

Agree and the fact Norse have aircraft capacity for such charters shows the company need the work. Last season Maleth Aero were a last resort as no other airlines had the aircraft available.

 

[Watershed]

Agree and the fact Norse have aircraft capacity for such charters shows the company need the work. Last season Maleth Aero were a last resort as no other airlines had the aircraft available.

They reduced frequencies and even suspended or cancelled some unprofitable routes for the winter season, so it's hardly surprising they have the spare capacity for charters.

 

[keano61]

Had my first flight with Norse Atlantic this week, flying Gatwick to Barbados. I can't say that I was overly impressed with the experience. Though, I guess that's low-cost for you.

On the positive side, the flight was more or less on time and the aircraft was clean and comfortable with nothing obviously broken.

However, I find it odd that they want you to pay to choose your seat even at the check-in counter where most other airlines offer free selection at check-in. And the lack of even free water on an eight hour flight doesn't strike me as a good idea.

As to their longer-term viability, while one flight isn't a trend, it's not a good sign that even as low as £200 one-way a flight to Barbados, in winter, was way less than half full. I really hope the people next to me at check-in were on the LAX flight because they paid £28 each to reserve seats and there were whole rows empty!

Adding to questions about their long term prospects, they're chopping and changing their network, which suggests that they haven't found routes that work.

Simple Flying article: More Cuts: Boston & Washington Dulles Exit Norse Atlantic's Network

I've just found out a 10kg cabin bag is free after 2nd September why not free before 2nd September? Doesn't seem fair. So because we booked before 2nd September we would have to pay roughly £45

 

[DeparturesBeck]

I've just found out a 10kg cabin bag is free after 2nd September why not free before 2nd September? Doesn't seem fair. So because we booked before 2nd September we would have to pay roughly £45

Go onto their website, My Trips and then Add Baggage. You'll be able to add the additional hand luggage for free.

 

[keano61]

Go onto their website, My Trips and then Add Baggage. You'll be able to add the additional hand luggage for free.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Norse is launching a new route from Rome to Los Angeles thrice weekly from 22 May:

Long-haul low-cost carrier Norse Atlantic Airways is opening a transatlantic service between Rome Fiumicino and Los Angeles next year.

It also intends to restore a connection to Los Angeles from Oslo.

The Scandinavian airline states that it will commence a thrice-weekly operation from 22 May.Norse Atlantic, which uses a fleet of Boeing 787s, says it is “responding to increasing demand”.

The Oslo-Los Angeles route will be reinstated for summer 2025, the third consecutive summer season for the link.

Norse will also fly this sector three times per week, beginning on 23 May and running to 26 September.

Norse Atlantic to open new link to Los Angeles

Long-haul low-cost carrier Norse Atlantic Airways is opening a transatlantic service between Rome Fiumicino and Los Angeles next year.

www.flightglobal.com

I've got my doubts about this one, ITA flies the route 7x weekly from March to December. Whilst I know Norse will be competing on price, and not frequency, a route like this one needs to generate a lot of revenue for it to be viable, especially considering the operational costs of flying into LAX and operating a 787 (which costs far more than the 737s and A320s most Low Cost Airlines use).

 

[theageofthetra]

Go onto their website, My Trips and then Add Baggage. You'll be able to add the additional hand luggage for free.

I've just tried that and it's saying £47 per leg.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Norse will launch a flight from Stockholm to Bangkok in 2025:

Norse Atlantic Airways is expanding its Scandinavian reach by establishing an operation from Stockholm Arlanda next year.

It will open a twice-weekly route from Stockholm to Bangkok from the end of October 2025, the beginning of the winter season.

Norse Atlantic to establish Asian route from Stockholm Arlanda

Norse Atlantic Airways is expanding its Scandinavian reach by establishing an operation from Stockholm Arlanda next year. It will open a twice-weekly route from Stockholm to Bangkok from the end of October 2025, the beginning of the winter season. Norse uses a fleet of Boeing 787s. The aircraft...

www.flightglobal.com

Interestingly, Norwegian Long Haul launched a similar route from Copenhagen to Bangkok in 2014...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Dec 2024 ==

Norse has reached an agreement in principle to lease out 6 of their 787-9s to another airline in February 2025:

Norwegian-based carrier Norse Atlantic Airways (‘Norse’) has revealed it has reached an agreement in principle that will see up to six of its current fleet of seven Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners wet-leased to another carrier for the bulk of 2025. Although the identity of the customer airline has yet to be revealed by the Oslo-based carrier, it is being described as a “reputable international airline.”

The announcement by Norse reveals that the wet lease, which remains the subject of a letter of intent as of December 2, 2024, will initially involve two aircraft being supplied to the customer in February 2025, with a further four aircraft following in September 2025. Signed at the end of November 2024, the deal remains subject to final agreements, mutual corporate approvals, and the necessary regulatory approvals.

The airline adds that under the terms of the agreement, it will be entitled to a monthly payment for 350 block hours per aircraft under the lease, with the scope for additional payments should the utilization per aircraft exceed this threshold. With a contract extension already negotiated in principle, the term of the wet lease could be extended if the parties agree. Norse has valued the overall contract value at $462 million if the extension is agreed upon.

Norse reaches deal to lease out six Boeing 787 Dreamliners

Norse Atlantic Airways has reached a deal in principle that will see the Norwegian carrier lease out six of its seven Boeing 787 Dreamliners in 2025.

www.aerotime.aero

Trying to diversify income sources, especially during the Winter season, isn't a bad idea.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Norse has announced a new flight from June 2025, between Athens and Los Angeles:

Norse Atlantic has launched a new route between Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) and Athens (ATH), adding to its transatlantic offering.

The new route will mark the airline's commitment to offering new destinations for the US market, with affordable fare options.

Launching on June 3rd 2025, the flight will run four times a week, operated by a Boeing 787 Dreamliner, with fares starting at $269 / 259 EUR, with options ranging across economy and premium boarding.

New route between Los Angeles and Athens bolsters Norse Atlantic's coverage

Norse Atlantic has launched a new route between Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) and Athens (

news.cision.com

Will be very interesting to see how they will keep costs "low*" on a route like this.

*Relative to the costs a legacy carrier would face on this route

 

[najaB]

Will be very interesting to see how they will keep costs "low*" on a route like this.

More to the point, how much demand is there for the route? Europe-Los Angeles largely traffic largely consists of entertainment folk in the front of the plane, and people looking for sunny climes in the back.

I have no idea how big the Greek media industry is, and Greece is famously already quite sunny.

 

[YorkRailFan]

More to the point, how much demand is there for the route? Europe-Los Angeles largely traffic largely consists of entertainment folk in the front of the plane, and people looking for sunny climes in the back.

I have no idea how big the Greek media industry is, and Greece is famously already quite sunny.

There are currently no nonstop Athens-Los Angeles flights, I think that says everything about this route.

 

[najaB]

There are currently no nonstop Athens-Los Angeles flights, I think that says everything about this route.

That it's a massively underserved market with lots of demand and potential for growth?

Oh, wait, no.

 

[YorkRailFan]

That it's a massively underserved market with lots of demand and potential for growth?

Oh, wait, no.

Looks like Norse will find out the hard way.

 

[najaB]

Looks like Norse found a way to get more flying.

India's top airline IndiGo said on Thursday it will damp lease a Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner widebody jet from Norse Atlantic Airways, with operations starting in March, as part of its efforts to tap into long-haul routes.

IndiGo to damp lease Boeing 787 from Norse Atlantic Airways - The Economic Times

IndiGo will lease a Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner from Norse Atlantic Airways starting in March to expand into long-haul routes. The agreement includes pilots and maintenance services from Norse Atlantic, with IndiGo providing cabin crew. IndiGo is also targeting additional long-haul fleet...

m.economictimes.com

 

[YorkRailFan]

Norse has made some changes to their network, including cutting Gatwick-Miami and instead launching a Gatwick-Bangkok service:

Last week, the long-haul-only carrier Norse Atlantic added its first, and probably only, Thai route from the UK. Norse Atlantic UK flights begin on October 26 and will mainly run four weekly on its Boeing 787-9s, although frequencies vary depending on the week. They'll fly back to Gatwick during the day, arriving at 18:30 local time.

Wizz Air, easyJet & Norse Atlantic Add 3 New Long UK Routes

They involve Saudi Arabia, Cape Verde, and Thailand.

simpleflying.com

Long-haul low-cost airline, Norse Atlantic Airways, has planned changes to its long-haul network from London Gatwick for this upcoming winter season. According to schedules filed to aviation analytics firm, Cirium, the airline’s Miami route will be axed as of October 25. This coincides with the launch of a new route to Bangkok that begins the following day.

Norse Axes London Gatwick-Miami Flights

Norse Atlantic Airways is axing its Gatwick to Miami route. Norwegian followed the exact same trajectory when it tried the same thing.

simpleflying.com

This will be the airline's second Thai service. It doesn't exactly look good that Norse can't sustain a route like Gatwick-Miami when Virgin connects Manchester and Florida successfully. One would think that this would be a popular leisure route.

 

[TravelDream]

This will be the airline's second Thai service. It doesn't exactly look good that Norse can't sustain a route like Gatwick-Miami when Virgin connects Manchester and Florida successfully. One would think that this would be a popular leisure route.

The airline do seem to be struggling.

I had a family member book some flights with them for the autumn. My advice was to book with a credit card and take out good quality travel insurance that covers scheduled airline failure


London to Bangkok should be an easy one to fill with the right fares. Especially in the winter season which is the peak for Thailand. The issue is the Middle Eastern carriers, and even the Chinese ones again now, dump massive amounts of capacity at relatively low fares.

Norse needs to have the right cost model and fare structure to compete with them.

Though it should be even easier to Miami given they don't compete with an ocean of fare dumping capacity. Buyer beware.

 

[peterblue]

The route does at least make a bit more sense. The trouble with Cape Town / ZA in general is it's not really a low cost destination so people will be less inclined to save £100 or so by booking with Norse.

I'm surprised they couldn't make Miami work. That's not encouraging.

I think there is a demand for low cost backpacker style travel across south east Asian countries. It depends where Norse sets the price point at. There already is a ton of capacity via the middle east, and many cheap options via Chinese carriers.

 

[cactustwirly]

The airline do seem to be struggling.

I had a family member book some flights with them for the autumn. My advice was to book with a credit card and take out good quality travel insurance that covers scheduled airline failure


London to Bangkok should be an easy one to fill with the right fares. Especially in the winter season which is the peak for Thailand. The issue is the Middle Eastern carriers, and even the Chinese ones again now, dump massive amounts of capacity at relatively low fares.

Norse needs to have the right cost model and fare structure to compete with them.

Though it should be even easier to Miami given they don't compete with an ocean of fare dumping capacity. Buyer beware.

BA flies LGW to Bangkok in the winter with very competitive fares too