Normal tickets vs contactless where contactless is accepted (TfL)

[JonathanH]

Coming from Gatwick Airport, an off-peak day travelcard route Thameslink Only is £18.30 (and a super off-peak for Weekends only is £15.20), while the off-peak daily cap on Oyster/Contactless is £23.70.

There are two issues. Firstly, the travelcard is priced artificially low on the Gatwick route, relative to other places. The off-peak daily cap from Gatwick has greater validity than the travelcard as it is valid to everywhere covered by Oyster - eg places like Potters Bar, Grays, Watford Junction etc.

 

[Haywain]

There are two issues. Firstly, the travelcard is priced artificially low on the Gatwick route, relative to other places. The off-peak daily cap from Gatwick has greater validity than the travelcard as it is valid to everywhere covered by Oyster - eg places like Potters Bar, Grays, Watford Junction etc.

And the daily cap doesn't carry any operator restrictions.

 

[JonathanH]

And the daily cap doesn't carry any operator restrictions.

Other than it isn't valid for journeys to and from the barriers at Victoria platform 13 and 14.

 

[Ian Hardy]

On Oyster with a railcard discount applied when peak fares apply in the evening peak railcard discounts will not apply, whereas railcard discounts on paper tickets still apply during the evening peak. However there is an anomaly, if you use your Oyster card with a railcard discount added on a purely LUL journey (I haven't tried it on National Rail journeys that early) before the morning peak fares start time you get a railcard discount on that journey, whereas using a paper ticket you wouldn't get a discount.

 

[Haywain]

However there is an anomaly, if you use your Oyster card with a railcard discount added on a purely LUL journey (I haven't tried it on National Rail journeys that early) before the morning peak fares start time you get a railcard discount on that journey,

I believe that this will work for a National Rail journey as well, although it may also depend on the railcard that is applied to the Oyster card as they have different rules.

 

[Ian Hardy]

I believe that this will work for a National Rail journey as well, although it may also depend on the railcard that is applied to the Oyster card as they have different rules.

Mine is a Gold Card, so I doubt National Rail would discount it?

 

[Haywain]

Mine is a Gold Card, so I doubt National Rail would discount it?

As it is the same system applying the discount I would be surprised if the discount was not applied.

 

[Deerfold]

That's fine if I'm mistaken. I still find it curious why it was considered a financial incentive was needed for contactless in London when so many people use that for many different payments these days? Just not having to queue up and buy a ticket is big incentive in itself.

Once people have got into the habit, they'll often stay in it. But the financial incentive provided the impetus (and keeps it a good idea to have an Oyster or contactless card to hand). Contactless cards weren't nearly so common then (I remember asking my bank when I'd get one, as they were very slow sending them out).

 

[MikeWh]

As it is the same system applying the discount I would be surprised if the discount was not applied.

The railcard discount applies to ALL off-peak fares, and the off-peak cap. Thus touch in between 0430 and 0630 will give you a discounted off-peak fare, but it won't count towards the discounted off-peak cap (applies after 0930).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2024 ==

Coming from Gatwick Airport, an off-peak day travelcard route Thameslink Only is £18.30 (and a super off-peak for Weekends only is £15.20), while the off-peak daily cap on Oyster/Contactless is £23.70. It's been the case as long as I can remember that it's a fair bit cheaper to get a paper Travelcard if you're going to use Thameslink into London, and even if you want to go to Victoria, given the saving it is often worth changing at East Croydon for a fast Victoria service.

For a single journey, PAYG does seem to be cheaper than a paper ticket though.

There are two issues. Firstly, the travelcard is priced artificially low on the Gatwick route, relative to other places. The off-peak daily cap from Gatwick has greater validity than the travelcard as it is valid to everywhere covered by Oyster - eg places like Potters Bar, Grays, Watford Junction etc.

And the daily cap doesn't carry any operator restrictions.

There is actually another issue which explains the artificially high Gatwick cap as well. As the zones increase, the cap has to either stay the same or increase as well. Gatwick is in zone 14, but the cap is set by Greater Anglia as they control fares/caps for Shenfield in zone 12.

Other than it isn't valid for journeys to and from the barriers at Victoria platform 13 and 14.

Not quite not valid. The cap will not apply if the barriers at platforms 13/14 are used, but the Oyster card is still valid to use, as long as it has enough money on it.

 

[fandroid]

. It's been the case as long as I can remember that it's a fair bit cheaper to get a paper Travelcard if you're going to use Thameslink into London, and even if you want to go to Victoria, given the saving it is often worth changing at East Croydon for a fast Victoria service.

For a single journey, PAYG does seem to be cheaper than a paper ticket though.

I'd assume that outboundary Travelcards can be loaded onto the Key Smartcard, valid for Gatwick and other GTR lines. Those have the advantages of Railcard discounts, the convenience of not having to be collected, operate contactlessly and are more reliable than paper

 

[Haywain]

I'd assume that outboundary Travelcards can be loaded onto the Key Smartcard, valid for Gatwick and other GTR lines.

Some but not all, and as payment (which is no different to a physical ticket) has to be made in advance of travelling they are really a 'normal' ticket in that respect as opposed to conactless payment.

 

[Starmill]

A return journey from Horley to Redhill (on a weekday from 0930 or non-working days at any time) would cost you £4.90 on paper, or in your favourite app as an eticket, or £5.20 at minimum if using contactless PAYG. Sadly this is very common outside of Travelcard Zones 1-6

 

[JonathanH]

A return journey from Horley to Redhill (on a weekday from 0930 or non-working days at any time) would cost you £4.90 on paper, or in your favourite app as an eticket, or £5.20 at minimum if using contactless PAYG. Sadly this is very common outside of Travelcard Zones 1-6

Unless you are only making a single journey, there is practically no journey which can be made after 0930 or at the weekend where it is cheaper to use Contactless from Redhill than the 'paper' ticket structure.

There are some particularly bad examples of this - Redhill to Epsom is £12.50 peak, £10.60 off-peak on Contactless, yet £21.20 anytime day return and £11.60 off-peak day return for Not via London, and £17.20 anytime day return and £10.70 off-peak day return for Not via Clapham Junction.

 

[Starmill]

Unless you are only making a single journey, there is practically no journey which can be made after 0930 or at the weekend where it is cheaper to use Contactless from Redhill than the 'paper' ticket structure.

There are some particularly bad examples of this - Redhill to Epsom is £12.50 peak, £10.60 off-peak on Contactless, yet £21.20 anytime day return and £11.60 off-peak day return for Not via London, and £17.20 anytime day return and £10.70 off-peak day return for Not via Clapham Junction.

Yep. It's awful if you use Redhill on the regular.

Redhill to Waddon single from the ticket machine or in the app is £6.20. But use Contactless and this rises to £8.20 off peak and £10 peak.

 

[blueberry11]

Oh yea, I and no one said about one advantage of normal tickets vs contactless is a break of journey. Say you want to go between Paddington and Reading but want to get off a Slough or Maidenhead. Contactless does not allow that with the major exception of getting off at Paddington for a fast GWR (an OSI). And splitting journeys too but getting on the GWR fast train to Reading is not applicable and have to get off the train, through the barriers and back again, similar to the Heathrow scenario.

And as a side note, how about advance tickets within the contactless zone? Is that even sold?

 

[Edvid]

And as a side note, how about advance tickets within the contactless zone? Is that even sold?

Yes; between London St Pancras and Luton Airport Parkway, for instance.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Yes; between London St Pancras and Luton Airport Parkway, for instance.

I think they're all to or from airports - the aforementioned EMR Advances between St Pancras and Luton Airport Parkway / Luton Airport itself via the DART shuttle, Southern Advances between Victoria and Gatwick Airport, and Heathrow Express's own version of Advances - their 'Early Bird Discounted Single' (valid on any train on a specific date).

I don't think there are any others...

 

[Starmill]

I think they're all to or from airports - the aforementioned EMR Advances between St Pancras and Luton Airport Parkway / Luton Airport itself via the DART shuttle, Southern Advances between Victoria and Gatwick Airport, and Heathrow Express's own version of Advances - their 'Early Bird Discounted Single' (valid on any train on a specific date).

I don't think there are any others...

Just some variations on the ones you mention, such as Harpenden - Gatwick Airport and Watford Junction - Gatwick Airport.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Feb 2024 ==

Watford North to Gatwick Airport paper Off Peak Day Single £10

Watford Junction to Gatwick Airport Oyster / Contactless single £11.70.

Oval strikes again!