No valid railcard

[TheTD]

Hello
Today I received a Govia Thameslink Witness Statement receipt after I had forgotten to update my Railcard. It is the 27th November today and my old railcard ran out 23rd October. Since then 23rd I have made 5 separate journeys, including the one today, between Three Bridges and St Pancras, each around £10 each. For each journey, I paid for a ticket but with the 16-25 railcard discount applied. Naively, I did not think about having to renew it although I am aware this is not a valid excuse. I no longer have access to the email that my old railcard was associated with, but a man at the ticket both said this is not a problem as I can expect to see a letter in the post. Any estimates how long it could take to receive this letter? And any ideas what the penalty could be? What is the process usually like? I know the maximum is £1000, but I don't know if this is common procedure.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello
Today I received a Govia Thameslink Witness Statement receipt after I had forgotten to update my Railcard. It is the 27th November today and my old railcard ran out 23rd October. Since then 23rd I have made 5 separate journeys, including the one today, between Three Bridges and St Pancras, each around £10 each. For each journey, I paid for a ticket but with the 16-25 railcard discount applied. Naively, I did not think about having to renew it although I am aware this is not a valid excuse. I no longer have access to the email that my old railcard was associated with, but a man at the ticket both said this is not a problem as I can expect to see a letter in the post. Any estimates how long it could take to receive this letter? And any ideas what the penalty could be? What is the process usually like? I know the maximum is £1000, but I don't know if this is common procedure.

Hi - have a look at some of the other threads involving Thameslink to get an idea of what will happen - the £1000 you mention would be if the case went to court and you were prosecuted for fare evasion (although that would be the max fine) but as you will see from other threads your objective should be to prevent that and engage with them (reply to said letter) and seek a settlement 'out of court' - which Thameslink will often agree to.

Probably could be about 4 weeks before you get your letter but could take longer. Assume you gave them a correct postal address where you can be contacted over the next few months (eg up to 6 months).

What you can do now whilst you wait for the letter is:
- check your records and make a note for yourself of all the dates this has happened
- buy a new Railcard (shows you acted immediately to stop it happening again) and you can tell them this when you reply
- note they can check your ticket buying record with whoever you buy from
- be prepared to pay the Full undiscounted Anytime fare for the trips you made with an invalid Railcard - and sadly any fares you paid for the travel you made are not usually taken into account
- When you say 5 journeys do you mean 5 Return journeys (which would be 10 journeys) or 5 single journeys?
- on top of the fares they will usually ask for an 'admin fee' of maybe about £100 as part of any settlement offer (note they are not obliged to offer to settle)

You can get plenty of advice on how best to handle this oversight from this forum, as you need it.

Hope this helps

 

[TheTD]

Hi - have a look at some of the other threads involving Thameslink to get an idea of what will happen - the £1000 you mention would be if the case went to court and you were prosecuted for fare evasion (although that would be the max fine) but as you will see from other threads your objective should be to prevent that and engage with them (reply to said letter) and seek a settlement 'out of court' - which Thameslink will often agree to.

Probably could be about 4 weeks before you get your letter but could take longer. Assume you gave them a correct postal address where you can be contacted over the next few months (eg up to 6 months).

What you can do now whilst you wait for the letter is:
- check your records and make a note for yourself of all the dates this has happened
- buy a new Railcard (shows you acted immediately to stop it happening again) and you can tell them this when you reply
- note they can check your ticket buying record with whoever you buy from
- be prepared to pay the Full undiscounted Anytime fare for the trips you made with an invalid Railcard - and sadly any fares you paid for the travel you made are not usually taken into account
- When you say 5 journeys do you mean 5 Return journeys (which would be 10 journeys) or 5 single journeys?
- on top of the fares they will usually ask for an 'admin fee' of maybe about £100 as part of any settlement offer (note they are not obliged to offer to settle)

You can get plenty of advice on how best to handle this oversight from this forum, as you need it.

Hope this helps

Thanks for the response. They took a photo of my driving licence with my current address on it, and the receipt I received also has my address on it so they should be able to contact me, even if they don't have access to my email. By 5 journeys, I mean 5 separate single journeys, I generally only travel at weekends. Thankyou for the advice

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Govia Thameslink Railway are normally pragmatic in dealing with this sort of thing. You'll get a letter in a few weeks which will say they've received a report, are considering prosecuting but asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. Write a short, concise reply covering the following points and I expect them to offer you an out of court settlelent:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[TheTD]

Welcome to the forum!

Govia Thameslink Railway are normally pragmatic in dealing with this sort of thing. You'll get a letter in a few weeks which will say they've received a report, are considering prosecuting but asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. Write a short, concise reply covering the following points and I expect them to offer you an out of court settlelent:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

I have received a letter from the prosecutions department which I have attached to this post. They have asked for a response from me explaining my point of view. Any tips/advice would be great, this is a draft of what I will write:

To whom it may concern

I am writing to explain what happened on the 27th November from my perspective. The ticket officer asked to see my train ticket which I complied with, and I was then asked to show my railcard which was on my Trainline app. Due to my own error, I had not renewed my railcard since the end of October and assumed, due to the fact that I was still able to purchase discounted tickets on the app without issue, my railcard was valid. As a result, I had made five single journeys from between Three Bridges and St Pancras at the price of a discounted ticket despite the fact they should have been regular tickets.

I acknowledge that this was my fault and I accept responsibility for this error, but no nefarious intent was involved in this incident. I immediately purchased a new railcard under a new email address - [redacted] - as the previous railcard was associated with an email I know longer have access to. I will ensure that I educate myself on any details relating to railway travel in the future to avoid making further mistakes. In addition to this, as you can hopefully see from my booking history, I have no history of deceit and my record should appear clean as I have not intended to avoid fairs in the past. This has been the first year of me using a virtual railcard and, while I understand that it is important not to be ignorant of these things, I hope you understand that it was a genuine mistake.

I also hope that I have already demonstrated my honesty from my compliance with the ticket officer as well as my quick response to this letter. I am aware that you are within your right to prosecute, but I would of course be keen to deal with this outside of court if possible and will engage in whatever the procedure is. I am, of course, willing to pay the outstanding fare as well as any administrative costs in dealing with the matter but I understand that this decision remains with you.

Regards

 

[John R]

The tone is absolutely fine, but I feel it could benefit from being shortened somewhat. As one example, the first two sentences appear pretty redundant, and won't add anything to what the investigator knows.

 

[ikcdab]

just to note that its "fares" not "fairs"....

 

[antharro]

Some edits/re-written sections in bold.

To whom it may concern
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to your letter of [date]. I am writing to explain what happened on the 27th November from my perspective. The ticket officer asked to see my train ticket which I complied with, and I was then asked to show my railcard which was on my Trainline app. Due to my own error, I had not renewed my railcard since the end of October and assumed, due to the fact that as I was still able to purchase discounted tickets on the app without issue, my railcard was valid. As a result, I had made five single journeys from between Three Bridges and St Pancras at the price of a discounted ticket, despite the fact they should have been regular tickets.

I acknowledge that this was my fault and I accept responsibility for this error. I would like to assure you that but no nefarious intent was involved in this incident. I immediately purchased a new railcard under a new email address - [redacted] - as the previous railcard was associated with an email I know no longer have access to. I will ensure that I educate myself on any details relating to railway travel in the future to avoid making further mistakes. In addition to this, as you can hopefully see from my booking history, I have no history of deceit and my record should appear clean as I have not intended to avoid fairs fares in the past. This has been the first year of me using a virtual railcard and, while I understand that it is important not to be ignorant of these things, I hope you understand that it was a genuine mistake.

I also hope that I have already demonstrated my honesty from my compliance with the ticket officer as well as my quick response to this letter. I am aware that you are within your right to prosecute, but I would of course be keen to deal with this outside of court if possible and will engage in whatever the procedure is. I am, of course, willing to pay the outstanding fare as well as any administrative costs in dealing with the matter but I understand that this decision remains with you. I offer my full co-operation and I am prepared to cover whatever costs Govia Thameslink have incurred.

Regards
Yours faithfully,
[Full Name]

 

[TheTD]

Thankyou for the responses, I will adapt my letter based on your feedback