No Trains on Boxing Day

[Bevan Price]

Hard to believe now that back in the 1960s, after a kate start, they even ran some relief extras on Boxing Day afternoons.

 

[slowroad]

You could say that about roads to the millions that don't drive or schools to the people that don't have kids.

The proportions are completely different. Almost everyone has attended a school, and 9 out of 10 miles travelled are on the roads (which aren’t closed on Boxing Day!). Most people don’t use trains much, lots never do.

 

[Lewisham2221]

The proportions are completely different. Almost everyone has attended a school, and 9 out of 10 miles travelled are on the roads (which aren’t closed on Boxing Day!). Most people don’t use trains much, lots never do.

Then there's clearly such a demand for schools that they should be open on Boxing Day...

 

[dk1]

could a TOC not simply reduce the staffing bill by running their trains as DOO, letting the Safety Critical guards stay at home over the festive period? A full service could then return by the 6th of January

I take it you are not being serious. If you are then it’s a big fat no.

 

[Topological]

Then there's clearly such a demand for schools that they should be open on Boxing Day...

Probably the same with seaside Ice Cream parlours and ski hire facilities in June.

Boxing Day football has always involved local, but not too local, games so that fans did not have to travel too far but the local derbies were on days when large crowds might not be expected. For Preston that typically meant Stoke, Wolves, Leeds or similar rather than Blackburn, Burnley, Bolton, Wigan etc. It made sense commercially for the club as well.

As with Christmas Day, the coaches are running for those who must travel. I am not aware that they put on a more intensive service to cover for the lack of trains. I suspect it just about works. Last Boxing Day I went to London and it was busy, but not too busy.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Manchester Metrolink is operating a near-full service today, after a late start.
So places that had no Boxing Day service under BR (Altrincham, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham) now have one.
Manchester Airport can be reached by tram even though the main line route is closed.
Piccadilly station is closed so Metrolink can only be accessed via the Fairfield back entrance.
Under devolution proposals I should think Andy Burnham will want some local services.

I should think the Cardiff Valleys lines would be working on Boxing Day once the Metro is functional.
The Birmingham Cross City line must also be a candidate.
It's odd that there are no services in Kent when HS1 is fully operational for Eurostar.

 

[Topological]

Manchester Metrolink is operating a near-full service today, after a late start.
So lines that had no Boxing Day service under BR (Altrincham, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham) now have one.
Manchester Airport can be reached by tram even though the main line route is closed.
Piccadilly station is closed so Metrolink can only be accessed via the Fairfield ground level entrance.
Under devolution proposals I should think Andy Burnham will want some local services.

I should think the Cardiff Valleys lines would be working on Boxing Day once the Metro is functional.
The Birmingham Cross City line must also be a candidate.
It's odd that there are no services in Kent when HS1 is fully operational for Eurostar.

On Cardiff, would that require NR collaboration to let trains into Cardiff Central? Presumably, the valley lines that are under the ownership of TfW could be covered with no problems.

Metrolink has the advantage of only using their own tracks.

 

[Qwerty133]

perhaps you should ask if it wasn’t clear without jumping down my throat.

I didn’t say other roles within the railway so you have made the presumption.

The likes of supermarket staff, coffee establishments, small shops and the likes. If they are open today and walk in looking a little groggy I doubt very much anything is said. They enjoyed their Xmas and are now in work. And still likely on an enhanced rate.

Those that are working a job that will
Impact Xmas day, emergency services, public transport and the likes should definitely receive an enhanced rate.

That’s my opinion, take it as you will.

Very few retail or hospitality employees will be on any level of enhanced pay (and even on Xmas day itself middle managers and salaried hospitality staff are increasingly expected to work for normal pay). Most employers will also hold their staff to the same standards as any other day of the year albeit these standards may well be significantly lower than the railway where there is no safety risk (for example many smaller hospitality businesses have no issues with staff having a couple of alcoholic drinks prior to a late shift as long as it isn't affecting their ability to work).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On Cardiff, would that require NR collaboration to let trains into Cardiff Central? Presumably, the valley lines that are under the ownership of TfW could be covered with no problems.
Metrolink has the advantage of only using their own tracks.

Yes it would, but Merseyrail infrastructure lies wholly with NR and they manage to run a substantive service.
Metrolink also uses NR infrastructure at Altrincham-Navigation Road.

 

[renegademaster]

How are signalers sorted during Christmas/boxing day. Theirs still a few engineering trains running on lines with no passenger trains. Are they ran with reduced staffing or is it an ordinary day?

 

[dk1]

How are signalers sorted during Christmas/boxing day. Theirs still a few engineering trains running on lines with no passenger trains. Are they ran with reduced staffing or is it an ordinary day?

One for @LAX54

 

[185143]

I wonder if part of the sales pitch to Merseyrail crews is getting to run fast?

That said, the 777s are arriving several minutes early at many stations so there may be scope to add more in next year.

Quite possibly. They feel rather slow between stations too and are running on the same timetables as Boxing Day 507/508 stock ran on.

I noticed a couple of people stood on the Liverpool platform at Hoylake earlier, that seems a rather strange omission to not serve, and feels like it easily could be served. There were (empty!) Additionals running to Aintree earlier, all the scheduled Ormskirk services are 8 car and loaded well. The additionals were 7 minutes ahead of or behind a scheduled service and were 4 car.

Southbound Southport services this morning were well loaded. West Kirby line this afternoon is dead.

I suppose we'll see from the FootEx services tonight just what the 777s on fast runs are *really* capable of!

 

[jamesst]

I wonder if part of the sales pitch to Merseyrail crews is getting to run fast?

That said, the 777s are arriving several minutes early at many stations so there may be scope to add more in next year.

Nope, that's because they don't want to pay to staff all the stations.
It's nowhere near as voluntary as people believe either.
I can however see a daytime Sunday schedule coming in future year's with the exception of trains past Hooton.

 

[bramling]

Why should we come to work on Boxing Day and get abused, spoken to like trash and then have to deal with the inevitable disruption etc? Then there will be football matches which we have to deal with fallout from that with limited support.

Then there’s the shoppers off to the sales and not to mention the coffin size bags that people have been travelling with this Christmas - any attempt to manage bags is met with abuse.

Absolute hell on earth.

Where I’m from there’s no meaningful NHS, GP or chemist service so don’t see why the trains should be singled out for lack of service.

I’ll never work one.

Yeah I’ll happily have a full (ish) rail service on Boxing Day if there’s similar provision in all other walks of life. So why not just make it a normal day?

 

[Retorus]

Why should we come to work on Boxing Day and get abused, spoken to like trash and then have to deal with the inevitable disruption etc? Then there will be football matches which we have to deal with fallout from that with limited support.

Then there’s the shoppers off to the sales and not to mention the coffin size bags that people have been travelling with this Christmas - any attempt to manage bags is met with abuse.

Absolute hell on earth.

Where I’m from there’s no meaningful NHS, GP or chemist service so don’t see why the trains should be singled out for lack of service.

I’ll never work one.

It sounds like you might be better off with a career change.

 

[Topological]

Yes it would, but Merseyrail infrastructure lies wholly with NR and they manage to run a substantive service.
Metrolink also uses NR infrastructure at Altrincham-Navigation Road.

Good point. I forgot about the Altrincham-Navigation Road section.

If TfW could also run the service on the Vale of Glamorgan/Barry/Penarth then that would surely be good for the businesses of central Cardiff. Ebbw Vale/Cheltenham/Maesteg might be possible some years depending on where the engineering work is. I could understand they would not want to come to Swansea though.

 

[Ianigsy]

Quite possibly. They feel rather slow between stations too and are running on the same timetables as Boxing Day 507/508 stock ran on.

I noticed a couple of people stood on the Liverpool platform at Hoylake earlier, that seems a rather strange omission to not serve, and feels like it easily could be served. There were (empty!) Additionals running to Aintree earlier, all the scheduled Ormskirk services are 8 car and loaded well. The additionals were 7 minutes ahead of or behind a scheduled service and were 4 car.

Seems strange not to serve Hoylake when the level crossing will need working for a start. I was on a New Brighton train about an hour ago but unfortunately the Mersey estuary has been fogbound today, so there won’t be the people going out for some fresh air.

Passing through Birkenhead Park without stopping, however, it’s to be hoped that the people who left bikes in the shed haven’t needed them over the last couple of days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes it would, but Merseyrail infrastructure lies wholly with NR and they manage to run a substantive service.

Though I think only the bit controlled by Sandhills operates. Nothing south of Hooton and no Hunts X for instance.

Amusing aside - the 777 PIS is announcing all the stops they aren't stopping at - best "take care when stepping down from the train" if doing so at 50mph

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Dec 2024 ==

Yeah I’ll happily have a full (ish) rail service on Boxing Day if there’s similar provision in all other walks of life. So why not just make it a normal day?

Make it the same as Easter Sunday in my book.

 

[43066]

So you're saying that being a public service means that customers should have lower expectations, and are less central to guiding what is offered, than a profit-making business? I'll go with the profit-making model then.

Well you tell me, you’re the one that said you worked for the NHS and local councils, so surely you understand that not all services are available on Boxing Day. The NHS has a massive backlog, yet how many surgeries etc. are being performed today? It isn’t just a function of profit, it’s one of various factors, including subsidies provided versus wider economic benefits.

Plenty of purely profit making businesses also seem to be closed today based on my walk up and down a local high street just now…

 

[TUC]

[QUOTE="43066, post: 7092888, member: 74632]
Plenty of purely profit making businesses also seem to be closed today based on my walk up and down a local high street just now…
[/QUOTE]
Just been to Asda and Tesco, plus I called into Morrisons Local for a couple of items on Christmas Day.

 

[43066]

Just been to Asda and Tesco, plus I called into Morrisons Local for a couple of items on Christmas Day.

Literally every business apart from pubs, supermarkets and (a very few) petrol stations are closed here… And I see you’ve ignored my comment about other public services.

 

[sammyg901]

A friend came up to visit from London on Chiltern and reported very healthy loads, looks like mainly 7 car formations so certainly the demand for it !

 

[12LDA28C]

could a TOC not simply reduce the staffing bill by running their trains as DOO, letting the Safety Critical guards stay at home over the festive period? A full service could then return by the 6th of January

This is a joke, of course. Something that came out of a cracker yesterday, perhaps.

 

[Samsanbor]

Why should we come to work on Boxing Day and get abused, spoken to like trash and then have to deal with the inevitable disruption etc? Then there will be football matches which we have to deal with fallout from that with limited support.

Then there’s the shoppers off to the sales and not to mention the coffin size bags that people have been travelling with this Christmas - any attempt to manage bags is met with abuse.

Absolute hell on earth.

Where I’m from there’s no meaningful NHS, GP or chemist service so don’t see why the trains should be singled out for lack of service.

I’ll never work one.

Those circumstances you mentioned will have you involved and in charge more often than you think during your new career and it doesn't really matter if is Boxing Day, New Year or Easter, it will happen regularly regardless.

I respect your view about the topic above but that attitude towards the job won't help you for sure.

 

[Discuss223]

It feels very archaic. A Sunday timetable would suffice.

 

[12LDA28C]

A friend came up to visit from London on Chiltern and reported very healthy loads, looks like mainly 7 car formations so certainly the demand for it !

Indeed, as has been the case almost every year Chiltern has operated on Boxing Day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is a joke, of course. Something that came out of a cracker yesterday, perhaps.

I would question why Merseyrail need to staff all their stations for Boxing Day, though. As most journeys are to/from one of the gated stations fares could just be collected there, and a few stations have TVMs. Some don't have ways in other than via the booking office (not that that closes Bletchley when unstaffed) but most do.

 

[12LDA28C]

It feels very archaic. A Sunday timetable would suffice.

Brilliant. With Sunday Ts & Cs and staffing arrangements perhaps? Good luck with that.

 

[ScotGG]

Given:

1) Boxing day can be very busy on the roads and across many towns

2) The country used to run trains on this day

3) Many other developed nations run trains on the day

4) Urban networks in some places run and seem well used. Eg in London the tube does but that's not much good to much of south London reliant on SWR, Southern and South Eastern Metro/suburban routes.

5) Buses, coaches, flights all run on the day and find staff to work them

It may be a PR winner for GBR to expand services. Of course not every single line but a fair few based on volunteering which it seems TOCs like Chiltern have no problem with. It'd definitely service a wider social and economic good.

 

[mikeb42]

Fallacious comparisons with disparate public services including large parts of the NHS, local govt, pharmacies etc keep being made.

You can't stockpile transportation in any sensible way that isn't catastrophically costly in money and time to the user. As such, these comparisons are specious. In all cited examples you can either a) "stockpile" whatever you need from those services at a different time at essentially no detriment to yourself or b) there is emergency provision at all times for actual emergencies, in which case inconvenience is irrelevant.

Transportation is inherently unique in this regard. Setting up a transport company or choosing to work as an individual in transportation ought to involve implicitly accepting that at the outset. It's only Railway Exceptionalism that has allowed the current stupid impasse to be arrived at. On one side the provision is via inherently monopolistic bodies and corporations and on the other the nature of the industry means they have to deal with effective labour monopolies like ASLEF and the RMT. Everyone else just gets to pick up the ever-exploding tab for a "We don't care what you think" service while these adversaries wield their power against each other. How lovely. It's so bad, in darker moments it almost makes you think the tories had a point...

If it's true that "there's no demand" then that's a perfectly sound reason to not provide a service on public holidays, Sundays etc. However, the M4 seems to be open today, and yesterday for that matter. Indeed, although quieter than a usual Thursday there seem to be queues in some of the usual places I'll be driving through shortly - as the railway can't be bothered to operate today but I must unless someone else volunteers. So that's the Highways Agency etc on the ground and in control rooms, the trafpol in some form, petrol stations, coach drivers, some HGVs, planes overhead at Heathrow etc etc all getting on with it while the railway (Civil Engineers etc excepted) collectively goes "Nah, mate... Not unless I get octuple time and an exotic massage"...