No ticket- Prosecution

[John73687]

Hi all,

Recently I traveled on a Great Northern service into London without a ticket. My destination was a station also used by London Underground. When existing the station I was stopped by a London Underground ticket inspector who asked for my ticket. He took my details and said I would receive a letter from London Underground.

Now I received the letter which states that I failed to produce a valid ticket for my journey on London Underground. Of course the letter was sent by TfL. Nothing is mentioned about any law, just that it may result in prosecution. No I am asked to respond and state whether I deny or accept the offence.

What do you think I should do? The service that I took has nothing to do with London Underground and I don't think LUL inspectors are authorised to check passengers on other services.

Any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[najaB]

Recently I traveled on a Great Northern service into London without a ticket

Did you have an opportunity to pay for a ticket?

The service that I took has nothing to do with London Underground and I don't think LUL inspectors are authorised to check passengers on other services.

They are.

 

[John73687]

Yes, I could have bought it. It was the classic occasion where I had to catch the train the last sec.

 

[londonboi]

Yes, I could have bought it. It was the classic occasion where I had to catch the train the last sec.

Sadly that is not an excuse if ticket issuing facilities exist at the point of origion it is the passengers responsibility to ensure they have a valid ticket BEFORE boarding the train.

Others shall be along shortly with advice however what you should do in your reply is be honest and tell the truth trying to work around the truth will dig you a deeper hole so to speak and can lead to more complications

 

[John73687]

Yes, I understand. The point is that the situation seems a bit complicated as I haven't used the London Underground. Should I state that in my response and wait for them to advice with regards to the next steps?

 

[londonboi]

Yes, I understand. The point is that the situation seems a bit complicated as I haven't used the London Underground. Should I state that in my response and wait for them to advice with regards to the next steps?

I may be wrong however the fact you where stopped by a tfl Inspector but travelled on a different train operator is irrelevant. There are cases before where passengers travelled on TOC A but alighted at a station managed by Toc B. When asked the same question the answers where that the companies work together. If the station is run by TFL which it sounds like it is giving your origional post then unless I am mistaking there inspectors have the right to check tickets and act on any instances of ticketless travel. I may be wrong others with better experience may be along shortly to correct me on that so don’t take my word as being correct

 

[furlong]

Were you not asked where you began your journey?
What was the manner in which you were 'caught'?
There may also be nuances that depend on the actual stations concerned.

 

[John73687]

I was asked where I started my travel, whether I had money to pay, and my details.

 

[swt_passenger]

GTR’s penalty fare scheme details were provided in response to an FOI request in 2015, and at that time it was stated that TFL and GN would not issue PFs to each other’s passengers. Each station with more than one TOC is defined separately and Finsbury Park for example refers to note G,

G - London Underground or London Overground operate a penalty fares scheme at these stations, but we will not issue penalty fares to their passengers and vice-versa at this station.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/304994/response/748734/attach/7/GTR Penalty Fares Scheme Document Revised 180515 V1 2.pdf

My only caveat would be that 3 years have passed.

As a general point, all schemes seem to have a similar list of stations, and there are 7 scenarios A-G to describe how other TOCs passengers can be treated...

 

[Haywain]

The OP was not issued a Penalty Fare, so discussion of them appears to be completely irrelevant.

 

[swt_passenger]

The OP was not issued a Penalty Fare, so discussion of them appears to be completely irrelevant.

Yes, I was trying to find evidence of whether or not GN and TFL had a reciprocal arrangement for revenue matters, presuming that it would answer whether TfL had any remit at all.

 

[221129]

Yes, I was trying to find evidence of whether or not GN and TFL had a reciprocal arrangement for revenue matters, presuming that it would answer whether TfL had any remit at all.

Any authorised person can report for prosecution under the railway bylaws . It is irrelevant as to who they work for or if there is an agreement in place.

 

[londonboi]

One question that is bound to surface is this

When you left the train which of the following did you do
1. Make your way to a staff member or ticket office window to pay for your ticket
2. Make you way for exit to leave the station this meaning you did not attempt to pay for your travel

 

[najaB]

One question that is bound to surface is this

When you left the train which of the following did you do
1. Make your way to a staff member or ticket office window to pay for your ticket
2. Make you way for exit to leave the station this meaning you did not attempt to pay for your travel

As far as a Byelaw prosecution is concerned that makes no difference. As far as a RoRA prosecution is concerned, that makes little difference.

 

[londonboi]

As far as a Byelaw prosecution is concerned that makes no difference. As far as a RoRA prosecution is concerned, that makes little difference.

Ok my bad thanks for that