No Ticket on Departure

[googolplex]

When I got to Dundee this morningthe ticket on departure system wasn't working at the machine or the ticket office. I had no opportunity to collect when I changed at haymarket, and have been told Manchester oxford road station doesn't do ticket on departure, so do I have to walk to picadilly to get my ticket or can I just get on the train as I've effectively had no opportunity to get my tickets.

 

[transportphoto]

What is your journey?

What journey is the TOD for?

 

[northwichcat]

I don't understand. Are you saying that you were able to travel from Dundee to Manchester without buying a new ticket and wondering if they will let you collect it at Piccadilly?

If so you've got G4S revenue staff to try and get past first.

 

[AlterEgo]

When I got to Dundee this morningthe ticket on departure system wasn't working at the machine or the ticket office. I had no opportunity to collect when I changed at haymarket, and have been told Manchester oxford road station doesn't do ticket on departure, so do I have to walk to picadilly to get my ticket or can I just get on the train as I've effectively had no opportunity to get my tickets.

You need to speak to the train staff ASAP and explain what happened. Hopefully they'll be aware of the TOD problems at Dundee.

 

[Mike395]

You need to speak to the train staff ASAP and explain what happened. Hopefully they'll be aware of the TOD problems at Dundee.

That'd be the best thing to do - proactively find the guard, explain what happened, and worst case, he may sell you a new ticket which you should then be able to claim back from whoever sold you the original TOD ticket

 

[googolplex]

Sorry for the lack of update, my phone's battery died!
I'd actually got from Dundee to Manchester when I posted.
When I realised the machine wasn't doing ToD I went to the ticket office who told me I could travel using the booking reference. I then spoke to the guard when he came round, who was aware of the problem and said that was fine. I asked the guard about what to do for the second leg (Haymarket - Manchester), and he reckoned the connection would be too tight, so I should again explain to the guard.
As it turned out the Dundee train was delayed, and the TPE service to Manchester was held for us at Haymarket, so there was no opportunity at Haymarket to try and get my ticket.
So, I again explained to the guard on the TPE service to Manchester, and was told that wasn't a problem (a few others on the train had the same problem). Then when I got to Manchester Oxford Road I explained to the guy on the barrier and was let out without any issues, however was told Oxford Road didn't do ToD and I'd have to go to Picadilly for my tickets, which is what prompted my (rather poorly written) question about the return leg.

I had about an hour's wait after my meeting, so walked up to Picadilly and picked up my tickets from there with no issues.

What I was trying to ask, is would it be acceptable to make your return journey with no ticket as well if the advertised ToD facility at your start destination was unavailable, there was no opportunity during your journey, and no ToD facilities at your destination.
I assume in those circumstances a UFPN might be in order if you had no means to pay for a ticket onboard, but presumably you could have it cancelled on appeal as you'd paid for a valid ticket but had no means of actually getting it printed.

 

[cuccir]

If your journey had been to Oxford Road, then no I don't think it should be incumbent upon you to seek out another station to collect tickets for your return leg (though it might be a good idea if you had the opportunity!). Hopefully all guards would be made aware / able to quickly discover about such issues. I guess if a guard hadn't been told about the situ at dundee, and had no method of finding out about it, then s/he would be right to issue a UPFN

 

[talltim]

If your journey had been to Oxford Road, then no I don't think it should be incumbent upon you to seek out another station to collect tickets for your return leg (though it might be a good idea if you had the opportunity!). Hopefully all guards would be made aware / able to quickly discover about such issues. I guess if a guard hadn't been told about the situ at dundee, and had no method of finding out about it, then s/he would be right to issue a UPFN

Surely an UPFN wouldn't be right. It's very name says unpaid, but the OP had paid. The issue was that they hadn't collected. Possibly it's just the name of the form needs changing, but as it stands it can do nothing to calm an often tense situation. If I was in the OP's position but then was attempted to be given an UPFN I would refuse to accept it (politely of course) as it implies (or in fact states) that I haven't paid (I know if you do have a valid ticket you can get the UPFN voided, but that's not the point).

 

[bb21]

Surely an UPFN wouldn't be right. It's very name says unpaid, but the OP had paid. The issue was that they hadn't collected. Possibly it's just the name of the form needs changing, but as it stands it can do nothing to calm an often tense situation. If I was in the OP's position but then was attempted to be given an UPFN I would refuse to accept it (politely of course) as it implies (or in fact states) that I haven't paid (I know if you do have a valid ticket you can get the UPFN voided, but that's not the point).

You might have paid, however without the tickets you can't really prove that. Also if you have a printout of the purchase, how is the guard to know that the ticket hasn't been collected by someone else?

Maybe they can ring Control to find out and if the ticket has not been collected, put a bar on it from being printed. This then brings up a new question of whether this has to be repeated for every leg of the journey as the ticket can no longer be collected.

I know that it is not the passenger's fault that TOD was faulty, however a UPFN is probably the best compromise.

 

[googolplex]

I wouldn't have minded too much had I been issued with a UPFN, however would have hoped the guard would check my story before proceeding down that route.
Presumably whether or not Dundee had ToD capabilities at 8.30 that morning could be checked relatively easily, as could the status of the ticket, i.e. whether or not it was printed.
I'd also assume that enquiries could be made to verify whether or not ticket office staff at Dundee were authorising people to travel, and the Scotrail guard could also be identified and presumably contacted to verify whether he had given authorisation to travel as well.
Of course, how easy it would be to make those enquiries while on the move and doing all the other duties guards have is questionable, but I'd have thought that had a UPFN been issued those enquiries would support the story and allow it to be cancelled relatively easily.

As it happened, nobody questioned my story, so the only problem I encountered was having to walk to Manchester Picadilly to get my tickets (that said, I did get to have a look round and watch the trains for a bit).
I did find it rather odd travelling without a ticket though!