No ticket acceptance with other operators when things go wrong [GC]

[DJCC]

I travel regularly with Grand Central and have noticed that over the past few days although they have been having frequent cancellations they have not been offering ticket acceptance with LNER - so people have to either wait for the next service (usually 3 hours away) or buy tickets with LNER and then try and get reimbursed (which can take upto a month).

Some families have been understandably annoyed - one has been posting on Twitter how he had to buy £675 of LNER tickets as the next service wasn't for GC four hours. To add insult to injury that service was one that GC had previously advised against travelling on due to overcrowding.

https://twitter.com/jamescraven28/status/1208687129724932096

Can you respond to the 675 pounds I had to pay? That is more of a concern. Money for our family at Xmas is now spent on this shambles. Have you any idea how that feels? 675 POUNDS!

https://twitter.com/jamescraven28/status/1208687948306288641

They told us yesterday not to board this train due to over crowding. We paid 675 pounds for new tix as no one would help or advise us.

I know Grand Central is an open access operator but was wondering what their obligations were?

 

[LowLevel]

I travel regularly with Grand Central and have noticed that over the past few days although they have been having frequent cancellations they have not been offering ticket acceptance with LNER - so people have to either wait for the next service (usually 3 hours away) or buy tickets with LNER and then try and get reimbursed (which can take upto a month).

Some families have been understandably annoyed - one has been posting on Twitter how he had to buy £675 of LNER tickets as the next service wasn't for GC four hours. To add insult to injury that service was one that GC had previously advised against travelling on due to overcrowding.

https://twitter.com/jamescraven28/status/1208687129724932096

https://twitter.com/jamescraven28/status/1208687948306288641

I know Grand Central is an open access operator but was wondering what their obligations were?

LNER will generally only accept Grand Central or Hull Trains tickets in the case of a full service failure like a fatality. It's not in their interest to help their competitors.

They often have acceptance with XC or Northern from Doncaster to Sheffield and EMR to St Pancras though.

 

[maniacmartin]

Grand Central mostly offer the bare minimum that they have to under the National Rail Conditions of Travel in cases like this.

They can make you wait 3 hours for the next train. If you did, you'd be entitled to compensation under their scheme, which is less generous than the Delay Repay scheme which many franchised TOCs use. If a passenger chooses to purchase additional tickets on their own accord to travel on LNER service, then the original tickets can be refunded by the retailer, but GC have no obligation to pay for the new tickets.

 

[DJCC]

Grand Central mostly offer the bare minimum that they have to under the National Rail Conditions of Travel in cases like this.

They can make you wait 3 hours for the next train. If you did, you'd be entitled to compensation under their scheme, which is less generous than the Delay Repay scheme which many franchised TOCs use. If a passenger chooses to purchase additional tickets on their own accord to travel on LNER service, then the original tickets can be refunded by the retailer, but GC have no obligation to pay for the new tickets.

In this case the next GC service was too overcrowded to travel (by GC's own admission) - would that mean they are obliged to pay for LNER tickets?

 

[Darandio]

In this case the next GC service was too overcrowded to travel (by GC's own admission) - would that mean they are obliged to pay for LNER tickets?

They just tell people to purchase them and apply for a refund. They have plenty of form on this and couldn't care less that many people just haven't got the funds to do so.

It's been discussed many times on here in several instances of disruption, my view is that they should be buying tickets for customers and i've seen plenty of people agree with me. I believe it is something they have done previously, pre-Arriva at least.

 

[sheff1]

They just tell people to purchase them and apply for a refund. They have plenty of form on this and couldn't care less that many people just haven't got the funds to do so.

I don't get why anyone would book tickets with a company who behaves in this manner....... but, there again, many more book with Ryanair so what do i know.

 

[maniacmartin]

They just tell people to purchase them and apply for a refund. They have plenty of form on this and couldn't care less that many people just haven't got the funds to do so.

Well, if the tickets were purchased due to advice by GC, of course GC should be reimbursing those who follow their advice. However the cynic in me thinks that it will be quite difficult to extract said reimbursement.

 

[furlong]

Is disruption preventing you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used? If so, any Train Company - including LNER - will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination. That's a contractual obligation:

28.2. Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your Ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary, provide overnight accommodation for you.

 

[island]

It’s not preventing anybody from completing any journeys. Just making them wait three hours.

 

[Darandio]

It’s not preventing anybody from completing any journeys. Just making them wait three hours.

To wait for a service they have already advised people not to travel on because of overcrowding.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s not preventing anybody from completing any journeys. Just making them wait three hours.

Not really acceptable, though, is it? I'm amazed anybody uses them. I wouldn't go near them.

 

[Wallsendmag]

There just isn't any room on LNER services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There just isn't any room on LNER services.

Is there anything LNER could do to stop them going to a TVM with the corporate card and purchasing full fare tickets to give to their passengers, though?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Is there anything LNER could do to stop them going to a TVM with the corporate card and purchasing full fare tickets to give to their passengers, though?

No but they'll still have to stand, if they can even get on.

 

[Mag_seven]

Do GC make it clear when you book with them that under most circumstances they don't do ticket acceptance with other operators?

 

[Haywain]

They just tell people to purchase them and apply for a refund.

I guess this also gets them out of any obligation to compensate for delays.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess this also gets them out of any obligation to compensate for delays.

As a private operation they don't have any obligation to start with other than contractual (hence no Delay Repay).

 

[yorkie]

Do GC make it clear when you book with them that under most circumstances they don't do ticket acceptance with other operators?

Under most circumstances they do, but not when the LNER trains are really busy.

As for £675 of tickets, that must have been a large group!

I guess this also gets them out of any obligation to compensate for delays.

They'd have to refund the originals though (well, the retailer would) so no income for GC from anyone who does that.

 

[Haywain]

As for £675 of tickets, that must have been a large group!

Or, at a guess, 3 First class singles to Bradford, which come in at £225 each.

 

[yorkie]

Or, at a guess, 3 First class singles to Bradford, which come in at £225 each.

Just shows how much LNER overcharge people; flexible 1st class fares would be nearly £50 cheaper on Trainsplit, but a more sensible option would be to pay for standard class tickets, which would be around £97 on trains that call at Peterborough, plus £25 weekend first, ie. around £100 cheaper per person.

This also demonstrates why GC should - for their own sake - make some arrangements when ticket acceptance is not in place; GC could have saved £100 per passenger in this case just by obtaining 4 fares instead of one.

I can't see GC being viable if this continues!

 

[DJCC]

An example from earlier today
https://twitter.com/GC_Rail/status/1209481538594848768

The 14:48 London Kings Cross to Bradford Interchange due 18:01 will be started from Doncaster. It will no longer call at London Kings Cross. This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

Passengers to please travel on the 16:27 Grand Central service from London King's Cross towards Bradford Interchange.

Passengers for Pontefract Monkhill, please change at Doncaster and speak to station staff for a taxi to this station.

The only alternative arrangement seems to be to take the service a few hours later! Now this is 2 hours wait but I've seen it before at 4-5 hours

 

[deep south]

At normal times, GC often / usually do make arrangements with LNER and others. But let's face it, at this time of year, pretty much all of these trains are full and standing. You can't magically conjure up more capacity.

I can imagine the "next" GC service would be horrendously over crowded....

 

[Haywain]

Just shows how much LNER overcharge people; flexible 1st class fares would be nearly £50 cheaper on Trainsplit, but a more sensible option would be to pay for standard class tickets, which would be around £97 on trains that call at Peterborough, plus £25 weekend first, ie. around £100 cheaper per person.

Ratherh harsh, given the purchase was apparently made at a TVM (I can tell from the receipt pictured in the tweet). He would have got a better deal at a counter. However, weekend first isn't guaranteed on a busy train.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Just shows how much LNER overcharge people; flexible 1st class fares would be nearly £50 cheaper on Trainsplit, but a more sensible option would be to pay for standard class tickets, which would be around £97 on trains that call at Peterborough, plus £25 weekend first, ie. around £100 cheaper per person.

This also demonstrates why GC should - for their own sake - make some arrangements when ticket acceptance is not in place; GC could have saved £100 per passenger in this case just by obtaining 4 fares instead of one.

I can't see GC being viable if this continues!

The trains are full, how on earth wold they get weekend 1st.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Ratherh harsh, given the purchase was apparently made at a TVM (I can tell from the receipt pictured in the tweet). He would have got a better deal at a counter. However, weekend first isn't guaranteed on a busy train.

One of our Galexios isn't it ? I don't see how on earth they would stand a chance of getting Festive First if the trains are full.

 

[island]

Not really acceptable, though, is it? I'm amazed anybody uses them. I wouldn't go near them.

Whether it’s “acceptable” or not on the part of GC is neither here nor there. The point I was making is that the NRCoT provision requiring LNER to carry the passengers is not engaged.

 

[Idiotic]

LNER quite often decline ticket acceptance to Grand Central and Hull Trains. They seem quite difficult to work with at times. Although again understandable if their trains are extremely busy as it is.

 

[Haywain]

Whether it’s “acceptable” or not on the part of GC is neither here nor there. The point I was making is that the NRCoT provision requiring LNER to carry the passengers is not engaged.

Because it doesn’t exist.

 

[Wallsendmag]

It all depends how you define "Reasonably"

 

[Bletchleyite]

LNER quite often decline ticket acceptance to Grand Central and Hull Trains. They seem quite difficult to work with at times. Although again understandable if their trains are extremely busy as it is.

I don't see Ryanair offering it to easyJet. Though I expect they'd take the money if easyJet got the corporate card out.