"No Rush" To Call More Train Strikes

[duncanp]

Interesting article from the BBC today.

Could be because:-

• The first wave of strikes wasn't as well supported as the RMT had hoped
• Ongoing negotiations are making real progress, and there is genuine hope that a new deal can be reached soon. The article does say that talks have been "constructive".
• The RMT is waiting for the results of strike ballots amongst other unions that are currently taking place

Rail strikes: No rush to call for more action, says union

The RMT's comments follow last week's industrial action which caused travel disruption across the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

Rail strikes: No rush to call for more action, says union​

A rail workers' union has said it is "not in any rush" to call for further strikes in July, following last week's walkouts which caused significant disruption across the UK.
Eddie Dempsey, senior assistant general secretary at the RMT, said the union did not "take these steps lightly".
Mr Dempsey, who is also leading talks with Network Rail, said it had been an intense week of discussions.
The two sides are trying to reach an agreement to prevent further strikes.

Thousands of members of the RMT who work for Network Rail and 13 train companies walked out on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday last week as part of a dispute over job cuts, pay and conditions.
Half of the rail network was closed on strike days, while the knock-on impact meant services were also disrupted on the following days.
The union has warned more strike action could follow.
However, when asked on the BBC's Today programme whether there could be further strikes in July, Mr Dempsey said: "We've told people we're not in any rush.
"I think we've made a pretty emphatic point with the strike action we put on. We don't take these steps lightly. We're in no rush to run into the boardroom and name further action."
The RMT and Network Rail are initially trying to reach an agreement on job security, before discussing pay and conditions.
Mr Dempsey said the discussions this week had been "fairly intense".
"We're progressing in terms of discussions. There are some fundamental issues of difficulty between us still, and that's why we're seeking feedback, but we haven't gotten onto the question of pay yet," Mr Dempsey said.
"That's going to be a really important issue, and whether or not there can be an offer that satisfies our people, we will have to wait and see."

Talks 'constructive'​

It came as the lead negotiator for Network Rail, Tim Shoveller, said he was "cautiously optimistic" that an agreement would be reached with the RMT union to prevent further strikes.
Speaking to the Today programme, Mr Shoveller said talks since last week's walkouts had been "constructive".
On 20 June, the day before the first rail strike, Network Rail gave the RMT a letter inviting them to a formal consultation meeting on 1 July about introducing reforms to working practices which would involve job losses.
A spokesperson told the BBC this week that although the letter had not been withdrawn, all sides had agreed to temporarily set it aside to enable talks to continue, and it would only come into play if talks stalled.
Mr Shoveller confirmed to the BBC that the meeting originally planned for this morning to formally start that process would no longer take place.
He said there was "no need" for it, as the best way to find a conclusion was through negotiation. He added that "the letter remains in place, but at the moment that is not preventing us from having the conversations we need to have".
Mr Shoveller described this as a "pragmatic position" after "pragmatic conversations" with the RMT this week, and there was no need to start that formal consultation for the moment.

 

[Starmill]

Worth noting however that there's still strike action by Aslef members tomorrow at Greater Anglia.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It's clearly the 3rd point. Support has been far greater than expected, especially from pretty much all other trade unions.

Talks are ongoing, but seem to be more focused on NR side currently as only 1 offer has been made on (my TOC) side

 

[brad465]

Strikes would be far more likely to achieve their aim if coordination existed with other unions in other sectors to create a "General Strike". The RMT may therefore be waiting for other sectors to decide on strike action, if any, first.

It was also reported in The Telegraph that Zahawi is after a 9% pay rise for teachers to try and avert teacher strike action, if this is met then the RMT might have a greater bargaining tool to negotiate with (i.e. they got 9%, why can't our demands be met?) when organising further strike action.

 

[duncanp]

It's clearly the 3rd point. Support has been far greater than expected, especially from pretty much all other trade unions.

Talks are ongoing, but seem to be more focused on NR side currently as only 1 offer has been made on (my TOC) side

I don't know that it is just the third point.

The article mentions that the talks have been constructive, so perhaps the RMT regards it as a gesture of goodwill not to call any more strikes if reasonable progress is being made.

I suppose you could argue that good support for the first wave of strikes is inducing Network Rail and the TOCs to make concessions in the talks.

 

[DarloRich]

• Ongoing negotiations are making real progress, and there is genuine hope that a new deal can be reached soon. The article does say that talks have been "constructive".
• The RMT is waiting for the results of strike ballots amongst other unions that are currently taking place

it is a combination of both points above

 

[43066]

Strikes would be far more likely to achieve their aim if coordination existed with other unions in other sectors to create a "General Strike". The RMT may therefore be waiting for other sectors to decide on strike action, if any, first.

It was also reported in The Telegraph that Zahawi is after a 9% pay rise for teachers to try and avert teacher strike action, if this is met then the RMT might have a greater bargaining tool to negotiate with (i.e. they got 9%, why can't our demands be met?) when organising further strike action.

That’s good news both for teachers and indeed potentially for the RMT in terms of offering further leverage. Frankly the teaching profession has long been undervalued in this country.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Are TPE Sunday strikes now over for the time being? They plan to run a reduced service both tomorrow (Saturday 2 July) and Sunday (3 July) but are putting this down to increased levels of staff sickness. For the first time on a Sunday since Adam was a lad, they are running a very limited service to and from Liverpool - roughly about every 3 hours each way, and only to/from Manchester Victoria, with no onward connections across the Pennines. Not sure what service is planned elsewhere. From what I can make out, the service for tomorrow is "normal" according to Real Time Trains, so presumably there will be oodles of short-notice cancellations instead.

 

[Dunnideer]

I’ve heard through union contacts that a quite decent offer was made by NR this week but the sticking point is still compulsory redundancies. Apparently if the DfT and the company are prepared to concede that point then it’s likely to be accepted.

 

[duncanp]

I’ve heard through union contacts that a quite decent offer was made by NR this week but the sticking point is still compulsory redundancies. Apparently if the DfT and the company are prepared to concede that point then it’s likely to be accepted.

Since much of the rail industry is suffering from staff shortages, I should have thought that it is possible to avoid compulsory redundancies by natural wastage, voluntary redundancy, early retirement or redeployment into a new role.

With a bit of goodwill on both sides, I am sure that this last point can be resolved.

 

[yorksrob]

It's certainly good news that the RMT are keeping their powder dry for the timebeing. Hopefully a settlement acceptible to all sides will prevail.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Worth noting however that there's still strike action by Aslef members tomorrow at Greater Anglia.

I'm in Anglia Tomorrow whats the impact re services? Would need both London Main Line and Branches to be functioning as am on a Anglia Day Ranger...

 

[PeterY]

How much notice is required to call more strike days?

 

[duncanp]

How much notice is required to call more strike days?

Two weeks.

 

[lordbusiness]

I'm in Anglia Tomorrow whats the impact re services? Would need both London Main Line and Branches to be functioning as am on a Anglia Day Ranger...

I'd check before trying anything. I believe its 3 up and 3 down NRW-LST and a few NRW-SSD only on Saturday.

 

[Fokx]

Are TPE Sunday strikes now over for the time being?

Yes. No action is being taken by conductors on Sundays unless it is inline with the national strike action so that members of RMT can afford to take such action.

Rest day working and overtime are not being up taken by RMT members however and the ticket scanning issue also continues.

They plan to run a reduced service both tomorrow (Saturday 2 July) and Sunday (3 July) but are putting this down to increased levels of staff sickness. For the first time on a Sunday since Adam was a lad, they are running a very limited service to and from Liverpool - roughly about every 3 hours each way, and only to/from Manchester Victoria, with no onward connections across the Pennines. Not sure what service is planned elsewhere. From what I can make out, the service for tomorrow is "normal" according to Real Time Trains, so presumably there will be oodles of short-notice cancellations instead.

The reduced Sunday service has taken place for the last two weeks. The route via Ashton is closed for TPRU works and it is very resource intensive to run a full service on the diversion as per the previous Saturdays as it requires all traincrew to sign the diversion.

There is not enough traincrew to run a full (Covid reduced) timetable at the moment due to Conductors not working optional Sundays as well as increased summer holiday annual leave demand. Grant Shapps can demand all he wants that TOC’s don’t allocate overtime due to industrial action but it’s the TOC’s begging for the staff, and not the staff begging for overtime.

 

[Agent_Squash]

How much notice is required to call more strike days?

14 days.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

I'd check before trying anything. I believe its 3 up and 3 down NRW-LST and a few NRW-SSD only on Saturday.

Many thanks for that!
Looks like I'll need a First Eastern Counties Day Bus ticket then as my principal destination is Lowestoft. Was hoping to go via Ipswich and Woodbridge for fun and the bash/mileage...

 

[Snow1964]

How much notice is required to call more strike days?

14 days unless Union and employer agree 7 days

For all industrial action, whether or not the ballot took place before or after 1 March 2017, 14 days' notice must be provided to all relevant employers (any who employ members who will be called upon to take action) before industrial action can begin, unless the employer(s) and union agree to seven days’ notice. So if action is to begin on, for example, a Wednesday, notice must reach the employer on or before the Wednesday two weeks before. The notice must state it is being given for the purposes of s.234A of TULR(C)A and contain:

• A list of the categories of employee to be called out (e.g. teacher) and a list of the workplaces at which they work.
• The total number of the employees affected, the number in each category and the number in each workplace. An explanation of how these figures were arrived at should also be provided.
• Alternatively, where some or all of the employees concerned pay subs to the union through check-off, the union can instead provide information which will allow the employer to 'readily deduce' the above information.

Industrial action ballots and notice to employers

www.local.gov.uk

 

[SynthD]

Have negotiations made any progress? The only leak I've seen is that the Secretary forbids progress.

 

[dk1]

I'm in Anglia Tomorrow whats the impact re services? Would need both London Main Line and Branches to be functioning as am on a Anglia Day Ranger...

I dont think any branch lines are operating. Just a a skeleton service London-Colchester & London-Norwich roughly every two hours (with a gap in the afternoon) and an hourly Stansted Express. No service Cambridge-Liverpool St either.

 

[Robertj21a]

Since much of the rail industry is suffering from staff shortages, I should have thought that it is possible to avoid compulsory redundancies by natural wastage, voluntary redundancy, early retirement or redeployment into a new role.

With a bit of goodwill on both sides, I am sure that this last point can be resolved.

Essential redundancies won't necessarily coincide with those who want to leave (and vice versa).

 

[Worm]

Strikes would be far more likely to achieve their aim if coordination existed with other unions in other sectors to create a "General Strike". The RMT may therefore be waiting for other sectors to decide on strike action, if any, first.

It was also reported in The Telegraph that Zahawi is after a 9% pay rise for teachers to try and avert teacher strike action, if this is met then the RMT might have a greater bargaining tool to negotiate with (i.e. they got 9%, why can't our demands be met?) when organising further strike action.

They always leave FE college teachers out of that equation, at the moment it’s fairly piecemeal and we were demonised in the media for striking at GCSE exam time, I wish the rail unions more luck.

 

[gazzaa2]

It's clearly the 3rd point. Support has been far greater than expected, especially from pretty much all other trade unions.

Talks are ongoing, but seem to be more focused on NR side currently as only 1 offer has been made on (my TOC) side

I think it's within the government's interest to avert more strikes and thrash out a compromise and the workers themselves will want a satisfactory resolution and not more strikes.

The government were hoping for some Scargill figure who Boris and the government could wage war against, but Mick Lynch really worked them and the media over and helped boost a lot of public support. The government won't want that again.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I’ve heard through union contacts that a quite decent offer was made by NR this week but the sticking point is still compulsory redundancies. Apparently if the DfT and the company are prepared to concede that point then it’s likely to be accepted.

Can't see DfT agreeing to no compulsory redundancies but a compromise with say 6-12mths grace before any are instigated ought to be a negotiating position.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It was also reported in The Telegraph that Zahawi is after a 9% pay rise for teachers to try and avert teacher strike action, if this is met then the RMT might have a greater bargaining tool to negotiate with (i.e. they got 9%, why can't our demands be met?) when organising further strike action.

Teachers really won't be getting 9%, or anywhere near. If the RMT are holding out for that, they'll be holding out forever!
I was surprised how much support there is for more rail strikes, the local motorway services recruited extra "strike staff" to cope with extra car journeys. Friends in the hotel business enjoyed a week's boom too. They're all for more strikes! And a lot of people got to work from home, they too are fully supportive of strikes.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Teachers really won't be getting 9%, or anywhere near. If the RMT are holding out for that, they'll be holding out forever!
I was surprised how much support there is for more rail strikes, the local motorway services recruited extra "strike staff" to cope with extra car journeys. Friends in the hotel business enjoyed a week's boom too. They're all for more strikes! And a lot of people got to work from home, they too are fully supportive of strikes.

This is the reality that striking won't cause the commuter dislocation it once did and im sure thats not lost on RMT. At least the mood music with NR sounds positive and Mick Lynch seems to be keeping a low profile this week also is a positive sign.

 

[43066]

I think it's within the government's interest to avert more strikes and thrash out a compromise and the workers themselves will want a satisfactory resolution and not more strikes.

The government were hoping for some Scargill figure who Boris and the government could wage war against, but Mick Lynch really worked them and the media over and helped boost a lot of public support. The government won't want that again.

I think this is exactly right. It’s pretty clear that Johnson is desperate to cling onto power at all costs. After surviving recent events, against the odds, the last thing he will want is a “summer of discontent”, even if the treasury, Shapps etc. have other ideas! That could well work in the favour of unions in various industries.

Essential redundancies won't necessarily coincide with those who want to leave (and vice versa).

Much as I’m sure you’d be very pleased to see railway staff made compulsorily redundant, it’s likely that many ticket office staff (for example) will be close to retirement and only too happy to go for a reasonable pay off. Those who remain could well be deployed to other jobs should they wish to remain in work.

There’s no reason why agreeing VR only should be an insurmountable issue as the railway is generally short staffed in operational roles.

 

[sjpowermac]

Teachers really won't be getting 9%, or anywhere near. If the RMT are holding out for that, they'll be holding out forever!

I don’t think you are entirely correct.

The ‘School Teacher Review Body’ makes recommendations on teacher pay. The government themselves have proposed a 9% increase in the pay for starting salaries of teachers this year, followed by another 7% next year.

The government proposal for more experienced teachers is 3% in 2022/23 and 2% in 2023/24

This has been in the public domain since early March.

In its evidence to the STRB, the Department for Education set out its proposals for teacher salary rises in 2022 and 2023 (which apply from September of each year). This includes large rises at the bottom of the pay scale to deliver £30,000 starting salaries by 2023. In particular, the government proposes rises of 9% in 2022 and 7% in 2023 for teacher starting salaries outside of London, making for a total rise of over 16% between 2021 and 2023. The government proposes smaller salary rises of 3% in 2022 and 2% in 2023 for more experienced teachers on the ‘upper pay scale’, which account for over half of all teachers according to the Department for Education. Slightly smaller rises are proposed in London, but with the same overall approach.

Link here to an article on the topic:

The even longer squeeze on teacher pay | Institute for Fiscal Studies

In this observation, we analyse how government proposals will affect levels of teacher pay in England and their overall affordability for schools.

ifs.org.uk

 

[AlterEgo]

It's clearly the 3rd point. Support has been far greater than expected, especially from pretty much all other trade unions.

Talks are ongoing, but seem to be more focused on NR side currently as only 1 offer has been made on (my TOC) side

The RMT acquitted themselves well in the PR war, and in my view scored a rare convincing victory in this. Mick Lynch was reasoned and came across as a cool, sensible, if not universally popular man.

I think it is likely negotiations are ongoing, and the RMT are waiting for other strikes in other sectors to decide how to position themselves for the months ahead.