No railcard

[imogenl]

Hi all,

I am hoping I may be able to resolve this issue by finding my railcard, but I was stopped today by an officer who has frankly really frightened me!
I have just moved house a week ago and still living out of boxes. Perhaps stupidly I always just kept my railcard separate as I don’t tend to use a purse anymore as everything else is on my phone wallet etc. I don’t travel often and would just tuck it in my phone case when I was due to use it (usually only going to see my parents). However the packers have obviously packed it and I totally didn’t clock I didn’t have it rushing for a train this morning to see a friend in bath. It was my first trip from the new house and I was with my youngest baby and was just in a rush buying tickets on the walk. Obviously Trainline has my railcard saved so it was added on, then when I got on the train I couldn’t produce it.
It’s a military spouse hm forces railcard which is just a paper copy, literally laminated thing, so I have no idea where in a family of 4 size move worth of boxes it’s going to be and have 21 days to find it!
I am now also panicking I don’t know what it’s end date was. I candidly haven’t checked it recently as we’ve not travelled much- my daughter mentioned above was born prematurely and we’ve had a bit of a year of it looking after her, and she didn’t travel on feeding tube etc so I’ve just not really had it forefront of mind.
I’m hopeful I somehow find the railcard and all is fine but the officer really scared me saying they’ll prosecute and take me to court for all previous journeys I’ve used it for. I can’t provide a proof of purchase as it’s all organised through husbands barracks admin lot, so I’m worried I’ll have no evidence to support me.
I am really anxious about it and last thing I need is rifling through all these boxes for a tiny slip of paper when I’m already knee deep in childcare during a big move!
Any advice is really appreciated, and I’ll update when/if I find the card.

 

[Cuthbert]

Hello and Welcome to the forum,

The forum pro's will need more information to help you.

Please bear in mind the following, when asking for advice in this section:

• We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example:
  • The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey
  • The stations* where you changed trains (if applicable);
  • If you presented a ticket(s), the information* stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
  • Details of any Railcard(s) held;
  • When and where ticket(s) were purchased, including whether this was prior to the journey commencing;
  • What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
  • Upload copies of any paperwork (with personal details redacted) with your post.
• We need to know what outcome(s) you would consider satisfactory
• We ask that you start your own thread as we have, in general, a one case per thread policy as we have found that every case is different even if they may appear similar at first glance.

* When referring to any stations, please write station names out in full the first time you refer to them; subsequently you may refer to correct station codes (as available here).

In order to help you, forum members may ask some probing questions, to establish exactly what happened. This will enable members to offer the best advice for your individual circumstances and ensure the train company has followed the correct procedure.

It is important that you are open and honest with us, otherwise the advice of our members may not be appropriate for your case.

 

[imogenl]

Hello and Welcome to the forum,

The forum pro's will need more information to help you.

Please bear in mind the following, when asking for advice in this section:

• We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example:
  • The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey
  • The stations* where you changed trains (if applicable);
  • If you presented a ticket(s), the information* stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
  • Details of any Railcard(s) held;
  • When and where ticket(s) were purchased, including whether this was prior to the journey commencing;
  • What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
  • Upload copies of any paperwork (with personal details redacted) with your post.
• We need to know what outcome(s) you would consider satisfactory
• We ask that you start your own thread as we have, in general, a one case per thread policy as we have found that every case is different even if they may appear similar at first glance.

* When referring to any stations, please write station names out in full the first time you refer to them; subsequently you may refer to correct station codes (as available here).

In order to help you, forum members may ask some probing questions, to establish exactly what happened. This will enable members to offer the best advice for your individual circumstances and ensure the train company has followed the correct procedure.

It is important that you are open and honest with us, otherwise the advice of our members may not be appropriate for your case.

Thank you, and sorry for not supplying all the detail originally.
I was travelling from Salisbury to Bath and had a return day ticket. Purchased before the journey through Trainline.
The railcard is an HM Forces one.
The officer recorded me saying I had a ticket and railcard and then said wouldn’t interview me because I was with baby but I would get a letter in the post. I offered to pay the difference on the spot but he said I can’t, and had to wait for the letter and find the railcard. I explained about the house move but he said if I can’t find it then it would lead to prosecution and taking me to court. I was clearly tearful and another guard overheard my convo and pointed me towards this forum. They suggested even if it’s valid I get a veterans card (my husband left the army end of July) instead as it’s better and can have digital one etc.
Basically the whole of Bath station saw a crying overtired mum having a bit of a breakdown afterwards I think!!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, and sorry for not supplying all the detail originally.
I was travelling from Salisbury to Bath and had a return day ticket. Purchased before the journey through Trainline.
The railcard is an HM Forces one.
The officer recorded me saying I had a ticket and railcard and then said wouldn’t interview me because I was with baby but I would get a letter in the post. I offered to pay the difference on the spot but he said I can’t, and had to wait for the letter and find the railcard. I explained about the house move but he said if I can’t find it then it would lead to prosecution and taking me to court. I was clearly tearful and another guard overheard my convo and pointed me towards this forum. They suggested even if it’s valid I get a veterans card (my husband left the army end of July) instead as it’s better and can have digital one etc.
Basically the whole of Bath station saw a crying overtired mum having a bit of a breakdown afterwards I think!!

Basically you need to find the Railcard if reasonably possible - failing that proof of issue somehow might just work - is there anything on electronic copy about issuing it that you or your partner may be able to locate? That could be worth a try, or record that barracks admin might retain?. EG if you have the receipt for it there is probably a process to replace lost railcard that you could use (there is for other railcards but I've not checked how the HM Forces one is issued)

Otherwise it will escalate but people here can help you avoid it going to court / prosecution. You are a long way off that yet however. But that could involve payment to them of a chunk of money (over £100 I fear) that you will want to avoid.

Good to hear a helpful guard pointed you towards some free advice. Juts one of the many helpful railway staff there are out there!

EDIT: I just checked this - HM Forces railcard FAQs

HM Forces Railcard

which says

What do I do if my Railcard is lost or stolen?

If a railcard is lost or stolen the railcard holder should report this to their unit administrative staff. A replacement railcard can then be issued at the full price of £21 to the railcard holder. The new replacement railcard will carry a validity period of 12 months. The new railcard will be issued in conjunction with the existing photocard.
A replacement Railcard cannot be issued at a National Rail station or online.

Which may be worth doing to get the ball rolling if you can't find that needle in a haystack misplaced railcard in time

BUT
the problem I can see is if the railcard is replaced with 12 months validity it suggests to me you are essentially getting a new railcard (there will be experts here who know if my hunch is correct), and the problem with that is that it will not show you had one on the date you travelled, which is the proof you need to give them

But £21 will hopefully not break the bank and is something you can say to the railway company (GWR ?) that you immediately did when you realised the card might have been lost in a house move to 'put things right' which is a key practical action to take prevent things escalating to prosecution

also that would cover off the eventuality of finding the Railcard and then discovering it had expired anyway....

Only other advice I can think of is if you can call up some military style rapid unpacking back up team - you may have the contacts after all

More seriously head back here for any questions or advice you have.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

BUT
the problem I can see is if the railcard is replaced with 12 months validity it suggests to me you are essentially getting a new railcard (there will be experts here who know if my hunch is correct), and the problem with that is that it will not show you had one on the date you travelled, which is the proof you need to give them

A replacement railcard will not be issued if her husband has left the army.

 

[imogenl]

A replacement railcard will not be issued if her husband has left the army.

Yes he left end of July. We don’t have proof of purchase as it’s not something I paid for directly- he would have paid either in cash at admin office as they give face to face or out of his salary like they do mess bills etc, but even then it wouldn’t show it as a spousal card and the guard kept saying “do you have one, not your husband”, which I did but you of course can’t differentiate.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes he left end of July. We don’t have proof of purchase as it’s not something I paid for directly- he would have paid either in cash at admin office as they give face to face or out of his salary like they do mess bills etc, but even then it wouldn’t show it as a spousal card and the guard kept saying “do you have one, not your husband”, which I did but you of course can’t differentiate.

This does then seem to be to leave you the only options of
a) finding it within the 21 days
or
b) going down the 'apology I have lost it in house move and can't prove I had one now my spouse has left the Forces, please let me pay what I owe to correct my ticket' route within the 21 days

Were you given any paperwork / instructions of where to upload a copy of your railcard to? That would probably be where you upload your apology to if you need to do that. Do not miss the deadline or it will escalate.

meanwhile have a read over this to get an idea of what to expect - GWR's revenue protection policy in pdf format

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/revenue-protection-policy/GWR-Revenue-Protection-Policy-January-2023.pdf

 

[imogenl]

This does then seem to be to leave you the only options of
a) finding it within the 21 days
or
b) going down the 'apology I have lost it in house move and can't prove I had one now my spouse has left the Forces, please let me pay what I owe to correct my ticket' route within the 21 days

Were you given any paperwork / instructions of where to upload a copy of your railcard to? That would probably be where you upload your apology to if you need to do that. Do not miss the deadline or it will escalate.

meanwhile have a read over this to get an idea of what to expect - GWR's revenue protection policy in pdf format

https://www.gwr.com/-/media/gwr-sc-website/files/revenue-protection-policy/GWR-Revenue-Protection-Policy-January-2023.pdf

Thank you, he gave me a card, but the barcode on it is just to the same link you shared here, and the privacy policy. Is it worth contacting a generic email address if I can find one online?!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, he gave me a card but the barcode on it is jsut to the same link you shared here, and the privacy policy. Is it worth contacting a generic email address if I can find one online?!

GWR revenue protection contact details in that PDF I think page 13 - not the more customer services types ones given elsewhere in the pdf - but have you written off finding it in your unpacked boxes?

However, if the incident was today I would hold off contacting them at all for a few days anyway so as to

A) wait for any case to be registered on their systems which won't have happened immediately
and
B) see what others on the forum advise you over the next 24 to 48 hours

and I would suggest it is important that you get any e-mail draft you want to send about this checked here before you send it so people can help you get it as good as it can be

did the card have any ref number etc on it?

I can't see from your post if you know that the staff member (despite threatening words to you) will have actually reported you....so that's a bit of a problem.

@RPI who frequents these forums with useful advice might know a bit more about what the usual GWR process is

 

[imogenl]

Thank you again.
I’m pretty sure he did report me, he took my address etc and told me I would get a letter. He just said he wouldn’t interview me as I had my baby with me.
I can’t see a reference number but there is an authorised user number on the card or is that his ID? He also issued a replacement paper ticket and wrote a number on the back of that? Or looks like two separate codes/numbers.
I won’t give up hope finding the card but I think odds are against me. In honesty it’s just been an awful year with everything that’s happened with our daughter and her ongoing feeding issues so the house was a mess and life became very disorganised so the packers didn’t have an easy job!

I’ll purchase a different railcard in the meantime- at least to show some sort of intent as you suggest. I can get the London south east one for example. I don’t travel much so it’s probably not worth it in reality but if it helps show I’m not a purposeful criminal!

 

[RPI]

@RPI who frequents these forums with useful advice might know a bit more about what the usual GWR process is

Basically need to wait for the letter and reply explaining everything.

 

[imogenl]

Basically need to wait for the letter and reply explaining everything.

Thank you. I am just very anxious so hope it arrives soon, but I’ll report back here once received for further advice and am really grateful for any help.

 

[RPI]

Thank you. I am just very anxious so hope it arrives soon, but I’ll report back here once received for further advice and am really grateful for any help.

It may take a few weeks unfortunately, did the inspector take an email address? If so, you may get contacted via email which could be quicker. In the meantime, keep looking for your Railcard

 

[imogenl]

It may take a few weeks unfortunately, did the inspector take an email address? If so, you may get contacted via email which could be quicker. In the meantime, keep looking for your Railcard

No, he didn’t take email. I’ll keep looking, for sure, I feel like we deserve a bit of luck after the last year so maybe it’ll show!

 

[WesternLancer]

No, he didn’t take email. I’ll keep looking, for sure, I feel like we deserve a bit of luck after the last year so maybe it’ll show!

If you've been told to expect a letter then I don't think you can be up against the 21 day deadline you mentioned.

but they can get e-mail info off ticket scans so do also keep an eye out for e-mails including in your spam

 

[RPI]

If you've been told to expect a letter then I don't think you can be up against the 21 day deadline you mentioned.

but they can get e-mail info off ticket scans so do also keep an eye out for e-mails including in your spam

Sorry yes, to be clear, if it was a report to the Revenue Recovery team then you will get three weeks from the date of the letter not the date of the interaction