No pink Oyster fare validators at Clapham Junction?

[burgesst]

I usually travel from Teddington to Willesden Junction via Richmond.

On pay as you go, this charged me for going via zone 1 unless I touched the pink route validator at Richmond.

I now have a 3-6 season and it covers my journey even if I don't touch the pink reader.

However, the other day that route was disrupted, forcing me to go via Clapham Junction. However, as there are no pink validators there, I wasn't charged to go via the extra zones.

This suited me, as I was forced to go that route, but what would an RPI make of this?

 

[Be3G]

The general consensus (and no-one's witnessed/heard anything yet to detract from it) is that you're essentially untouchable* provided you've touched in and out correctly, even if you do something strange-looking (e.g. doubling back) which normally wouldn't be permitted on trains.

Having said that, I'd love to see pink validators at Clapham Junction as they'd open up cheaper not-via-zone-1 journey opportunities from north to SE London!

* You can still be reprimanded for other issues like not carrying an associated photocard, of course.

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

The general consensus (and no-one's witnessed/heard anything yet to detract from it) is that you're essentially untouchable* provided you've touched in and out correctly, even if you do something strange-looking (e.g. doubling back) which normally wouldn't be permitted on trains.

If you're straying outside your season ticket zones then wouldn't you need to have some PAYG credit should you be checked while outside your zones, even if the system doesn't end up using it?

 

[Be3G]

Ideally yes, though I'm not sure you'd get in to trouble for not having any credit in such a situation. What would certainly happen is, upon touching out, your Oyster would go in to a negative balance and would no longer work (even within the season ticket zones) until that balance has been cleared.

 

[yorkie]

... but what would an RPI make of this?

If you are touched in, and have appropriate PAYG credit, you're valid.

If you are touched in, and do not have PAYG credit, then an explanation of the disruption should suffice (if the RPI isn't already aware of the situation).

If you are not touched in, the RPI will want to know why not, and unless there's a good explanation (e.g. non-functioning readers at origin station) then you'd likely get a Penalty Fare.
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If you're straying outside your season ticket zones then wouldn't you need to have some PAYG credit should you be checked while outside your zones, even if the system doesn't end up using it?

Agreed, but if there is disruption and staff advise the use of an alternative route, for which a more expensive route would normally apply then that is authorisation to use that route without further charge.

It becomes a grey area if there is minor disruption, no alternative route instructions are given, and the customer chooses to take an alternative route of their own accord. In that case, I would strongly advise caution and be prepared to pay any additional fare that may be charged* (that would include having sufficient PAYG balance).

* You can ask for a refund, the best way to do this is by 'phoning the Oyster helpline approx 24 hours after the journey, however a refund is by no means guaranteed if alternative route arrangements have not been made.

 

[34D]

Depending how much time the disruption would add, there is _possibly_ a case for writing to the TOC saying that you were disrupted due to xyz, but that rather than claim delay repay you would like them to consider reimbursing you for the journey via a more expensive route you elected to take

 

[paddington]

I usually travel from Teddington to Willesden Junction via Richmond.

On pay as you go, this charged me for going via zone 1 unless I touched the pink route validator at Richmond.

I now have a 3-6 season and it covers my journey even if I don't touch the pink reader.

However, the other day that route was disrupted, forcing me to go via Clapham Junction.

Why do you think you were being charged via zone 1? According to TfL single fare finder, the PAYG default fare appears to be £3.80 p / £2.40 op which is a Zone 2-6. This would be via Clapham Junction (or Putney Bridge, for which you could use the pink reader at West Brompton, though it wouldn't change anything).

However, as there are no pink validators there, I wasn't charged to go via the extra zones.

I don't think that not being charged for extra zones necessarily follows from a lack of pink readers.

However I would expect you to be charged a Zone 2 single which is £1.70 p / £1.50 op if you went by that route normally. Perhaps an adjustment was made because of the disruption?

 

[MikeWh]

I usually travel from Teddington to Willesden Junction via Richmond.

On pay as you go, this charged me for going via zone 1 unless I touched the pink route validator at Richmond.

Actually the default fare is zones 2-6 and the validator at Richmond only knocks off zone 2.

I now have a 3-6 season and it covers my journey even if I don't touch the pink reader.

However, the other day that route was disrupted, forcing me to go via Clapham Junction. However, as there are no pink validators there, I wasn't charged to go via the extra zones.

You are probably benefitting from the old rules on season tickets and pink validators which were originally only for use by passengers using PAYG. The signs by the pink validators now say that you also need to touch them if you have a season ticket which doesn't include zone 1. It's likely that they haven't changed the default fare with a season ticket for that route as it doesn't actually involve going through zone 1.

This suited me, as I was forced to go that route, but what would an RPI make of this?

In the explicit case of disruption I'd hope that they would show discretion. If using that route normally then I'd have enough for a zone 2 single fare in my PAYG balance so there would be no issue. I'd also ensure that I touched in and out at each end of the journey, even if gates weren't in use. If you follow those rules then you'll be fine, and if the system doesn't charge you it's a bonus.

 

[maniacmartin]

This would be via Clapham Junction (or Putney Bridge, for which you could use the pink reader at West Brompton, though it wouldn't change anything).

If going via Clapham Junction and West Brompton to Willesden Junction, you do not change trains at West Brompton, so you should not touch a pink reader there, as this would indicate that you are changing between the District and WLL at West Brompton.

You should never touch a pink reader when not changing trains. In some cases this can give you a cheaper route than the one you've actually taken if assuming a change works out cheaper. I'm told that if this is the case, Penalty Fares can be issued

 

[johnnycache]

I understood that you would never pay more if you touched a pink validator

Am I wrong about that in the case of seasons passing through a higher intermediate zone?

 

[CNash]

It becomes a grey area if there is minor disruption, no alternative route instructions are given, and the customer chooses to take an alternative route of their own accord. In that case, I would strongly advise caution and be prepared to pay any additional fare that may be charged* (that would include having sufficient PAYG balance).

* You can ask for a refund, the best way to do this is by 'phoning the Oyster helpline approx 24 hours after the journey, however a refund is by no means guaranteed if alternative route arrangements have not been made.

Last week, due to minor disruption on the Southeastern metro lines, I chose to travel to Richmond via the Underground at Cannon Street rather than wait for the delayed train to Waterloo East and using SWT services. This meant that I was charged £3.90 for mixing modes through Zone 1, instead of £2.50 for an NR-only fare. Usually I don't bother with Delay Repay as the hassle of getting an Oyster printout and scanning it in etc. isn't worth the fraction of £2.50 they'd refund me, but would the Oyster helpline folks be able to refund in this situation?

 

[Be3G]

I don't know about a situation where there're just minor delays, but I do know that they'll refund someone extra costs incurred if they have to go through more zones that they intended to because of an engineering work closure on National Rail.

(Actually I should add that I've never tested this, but the Oyster helpline said they'd be able to when I enquired about what to do when the Sunday trains along the Lee Valley line to Stratford are diverted to Liverpool Street, not stopping at Hackney Downs, and a desired zone 3–6 journey would therefore become a 1–6 one.)

 

[paddington]

If going via Clapham Junction and West Brompton to Willesden Junction, you do not change trains at West Brompton, so you should not touch a pink reader there, as this would indicate that you are changing between the District and WLL at West Brompton.

I said that one could touch the pink reader at West Brompton if going via Putney Bridge, i.e. changing to tube at Wimbledon then back to overground.

You should never touch a pink reader when not changing trains. In some cases this can give you a cheaper route than the one you've actually taken if assuming a change works out cheaper. I'm told that if this is the case, Penalty Fares can be issued

Can RPIs see which pink validators have been touched then?

An example I can think of is travelling from Seven Sisters to West Brompton. You could get off at Highbury & Islington, touch the pink validator then return to the Victoria line and only pay a Zone 2-3 fare. But if you had a 2-3 travelcard, you could also go through the barriers at Highbury (and again at West Brompton if going further south) to avoid the Zone 1 fare.

 

[fusionblue]

Last week, due to minor disruption on the Southeastern metro lines, I chose to travel to Richmond via the Underground at Cannon Street rather than wait for the delayed train to Waterloo East and using SWT services. This meant that I was charged £3.90 for mixing modes through Zone 1, instead of £2.50 for an NR-only fare. Usually I don't bother with Delay Repay as the hassle of getting an Oyster printout and scanning it in etc. isn't worth the fraction of £2.50 they'd refund me, but would the Oyster helpline folks be able to refund in this situation?

I've had a couple of refunds from southeastern having provided a screenshot of the journey undertaken on the website. I've not had to get a printout of the card contents.

 

[yorkie]

An example I can think of is travelling from Seven Sisters to West Brompton. You could get off at Highbury & Islington, touch the pink validator then return to the Victoria line and only pay a Zone 2-3 fare. But if you had a 2-3 travelcard, you could also go through the barriers at Highbury (and again at West Brompton if going further south) to avoid the Zone 1 fare.

The default fare from Highbury & Islington to West Brompton is avoiding Zone 1, if you go via Zone 1 there is no additional fare to pay as you are given the benefit of the doubt.

However if you go from Seven Sisters, the default fare is via Zone 1 unless you touch the pink reader at Highbury & Islington. If you are checked by an RPI in Zone 1, then the RPI may ask you why you touched on the pink reader, and if you gave the answer above, you may face action being taken.

(Note that any discussion on pink readers is applicable to PAYG only, not Travelcards)
Pink readers now also apply to Travelcard holders

 

[MikeWh]

(Note that any discussion on pink readers is applicable to PAYG only, not Travelcards)

Note that pink validators now apply to travelcards which do not include zone 1 as well.