No first class on Chiltern

[alan123]

I've been traveling on Chiltern for months now between Birmingham and London, and I only realised the other day that there was no first class. And apparently they did away with it years ago!

Personally I think it's a good thing and I don't understand why other train companies don't follow suit. What does everyone else think?

 

[MCR247]

I think InterCity trains should have first class. But why SN & SE have first class on their units is just wierd considering that its exactly the same

 

[bengley]

I think it's a good thing too. I personally think first class should be done away with. Trains need more capacity and first class has hardly any seating space compared to standard.

 

[Mojo]

It was good that Chiltern abolished First class as it was never enforced. In my opinion other local TOCs should follow suit but it is worthwhile on Intercity lines.

 

[yorkie]

If the likes of Virgin got rid of FC, I am sure that all standard fares would have to rise to cover the shortfall in revenue.

As for SE/SN, I wonder if it's a ploy to obtain money through penalty fares? FC looks exactly the same and the seats are identical on some trains. It should be illegal to call that "first class"!

 

[SWT Driver]

Yep, I couldn't agree more, get rid of it, it's elitist & the accommodation could be much better utilized by the increased number of standard class ticket holders, that's particularly on journeys of around 60-75'.

For journeys over that 80-120' then fair enough.

The trouble is it's a lucrative business, I'm mean to say if you were to travel in 1st class from (You need to sit down for these! hock :

Note: That these are for individual day tickets & annual season ticket holders get discounts!

Portsmouth Line.

Guildford - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £51,80
Godalming - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £57,60
Haslemere - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £71,00
Petersfield - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £86,10
Havant - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £100,30
Portsmouth Stns (Inc Fareham) - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £110,70

Weymouth, Bournemouth & Southampton Line.

Basingstoke - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £67,00
Winchester - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £110,20
Southampton - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £127,90
Brockenhurst - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £139,30
Bournemouth - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £160,10
Poole - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £165,30
Dorchester - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £174,60
Weymouth - Waterloo (Rtn) inc. Zones 1-6 = £182,70

It should be noted that a lot of 1st Class accommodation is full by either Winchester/Haslemere, let alone Guildford & Woking.

But when you see the exorbitant prices they charge, it's not surprising that they want to keep it for the amount of money it brings in. I think it just goes to prove that the city bods are overpaid.

 

[bengolding]

I remember the issue caused a great fuss a few years ago when I lived in Gerrards Cross. The line serves some of the wealthiest parts of England in Bucks, and I knew of several regular First Class commuters on the route who migrated to Slough instead. Anyone travelling to London from north of Banbury could still get First all the way by going via Reading, which I did frequently when travelling to Leamington Spa.

I think Chiltern made the right move though. A shame that CrossCountry didn't learn from them when they introduced First Class on the 170s between Cardiff-Birmingham-Nottingham and Birmingham-Leicester-Cambridge. These trains are already often full to capacikty as they are (especially in the peaks when 2 car 170s are used), and removing 14 Standard seats to make way for an often empty 9 First Class seating compartment was a retrograde step. They don't even offer Weekend First to fill up the seats at weekends unlike on the Voyagers.

 

[Failed Unit]

Scotrail tried to get rid of it in the 1990's when the 158's were introduced. Customer feedback soon brought it back again, and a section of 1st was introduced on 158's. Which passengers had to walk through to get on / off the train (unlike the 170's).

On regional railways you do normally get some kind of freebies such as a newspaper, drink and maybe a cookie. When you consider the yield difference as well you can see why companies do it. I used to travel first class on AP's on GNER all the time as I felt the premium was worth paying, now it is only Standard as National Express have upped the price and reduced the service.

In the South East I agree 100% with Yorkie how some TOC get away with calling their product first class is beyond me. SouthEastern it is the same seats! The worse route however is stansted express! If you are unlucky enough to get 2x 317/8 the first class seats in them are worse than the standard class seats on the 317/7 or 317/6's. If you get 317/8 and 317/7 (6) combo you have 3 classes on the same train. There is a place for first class and even on XC how many seats have you lost? 5 maybe out of a 130 seat train, not many. But you get a bigger premium to pay for the 5 lost seats, and how often do you see a train with only 5 standees!

 

[mathmo]

The FC seating on the FGW 165s and 166s (local services in and out of London, and a few others besides that) actually does make sense - standard seating is a mixture of 3+2 and 2+2 with narrow seats and a wide aisle whereas FC gets 2+2 seating with tables. I can see why people would pay for it, even if the season ticket is 50% more than standard (unlike day tickets, where it's over twice the price of standard). The problem is enforcement - in a month of commuting I've never seen an on-train ticket inspector and so I feel I'd be able to just sit in FC without paying for it...

 

[yorksrob]

If the likes of Virgin got rid of FC, I am sure that all standard fares would have to rise to cover the shortfall in revenue.

As for SE/SN, I wonder if it's a ploy to obtain money through penalty fares? FC looks exactly the same and the seats are identical on some trains. It should be illegal to call that "first class"!

Absolutely right about SE. No point to it now. Can't see why anyone would pay extra - unlike the not so distant past when 1st class entailed armchair seating in a compartment.

As for the rest of the network I love it on the odd occasions when I can afford it

 

[bengley]

The FC seating on the FGW 165s and 166s (local services in and out of London, and a few others besides that) actually does make sense - standard seating is a mixture of 3+2 and 2+2 with narrow seats and a wide aisle whereas FC gets 2+2 seating with tables. I can see why people would pay for it, even if the season ticket is 50% more than standard (unlike day tickets, where it's over twice the price of standard). The problem is enforcement - in a month of commuting I've never seen an on-train ticket inspector and so I feel I'd be able to just sit in FC without paying for it...

I've been into first class on NXEA several times without bother. It's not enforced much. I was even approached by the driver before he got in the cab. He asked if I have a first class ticket, I said 'No'. He told me that if there was a specific demand for someone to sit where I was sitting, then I must sit elsewhere, but he didn't care other than that.

 

[jopsuk]

See my (now amalgamated) post in the "Ideal Fleet" thread in the Rolling Stock for what I'd do to First Class- basically, unless the train has full catering, I'd get rid of it.

As for Scotrail- they run quite a few services with declassified 1st class, don't they? For instance, the Edinburgh and Glasgow-Dunblane/Alloa services have no first class service.

 

[stut]

See my (now amalgamated) post in the "Ideal Fleet" thread in the Rolling Stock for what I'd do to First Class- basically, unless the train has full catering, I'd get rid of it.

As for Scotrail- they run quite a few services with declassified 1st class, don't they? For instance, the Edinburgh and Glasgow-Dunblane/Alloa services have no first class service.

I personally think this would be an error on longer distance trains. If you're travelling on business, the big advantage to travelling by traih is the ability to work on board. And there simply isn't the space to get out a laptop and various documents in a busy standard class section. As it's business customers who tend to buy the full-fare inter-city tickets (not knowing when meetings will finish) it really could be quite a costly move.

 

[Geezertronic]

I don't see any basis to remove First Class on long distance trains. I use VirginTrains First Class on a regular basis and wouldn't do without it. I would consider it a big mistake if "InterCity" TOCs like VirginTrains and NXEC got rid of First Class while there is still a demand for it

 

[Failed Unit]

See my (now amalgamated) post in the "Ideal Fleet" thread in the Rolling Stock for what I'd do to First Class- basically, unless the train has full catering, I'd get rid of it.

As for Scotrail- they run quite a few services with declassified 1st class, don't they? For instance, the Edinburgh and Glasgow-Dunblane/Alloa services have no first class service.

They do, you often get services running around the central belt with 170's (with first class) which are declassified. The 158's have sort of got first class in the sense that they have an area that is supposed to be for first class passengers but the seats are no different. I always think it is odd that 158's have first class in them at all in Scotland. There are very few routes that the operate alone on which have first class tickets. Even if they are going from Edinburgh - Inverness they are normally working in multiple with a 170.

I know you sometime get a pair of 158's doing Edinburgh - Glasgow, but hey you also sometimes get the SPT 170's on this route (and Inverness / Aberdeen) and they have none!

 

[gordonthemoron]

doing 1st class Munich-London twice in the next 2 months and Munich-Berlin return

 

[adrianboult]

I use the Hastings to Ashford line at least twice weekly and it is definitely worth it as I always get a seat on a (usually) packed 2 carriage train. Southern do an off peak first return ticket at a considerable reduction on the normal full price fare.

 

[yorksrob]

Further to my previous post, I still think that 1st class is a worthwhile asset, even on longer commuter and regional services, just as long as it's enforced by the guard and is noticeably more comfortable (and preferably more secluded) than second. Obviously it should be at the guards discretion as to whether 1st should be downgraded in extenuating circumstances (i.e. unreasonable overcrowding) in which case paying 1st class passengers should get an immediate refund of the difference between 1'st and 2nd

 

[Greenback]

I agree completely, there should be an option on longerr journeys (that is, not short suburban) to pay more for better accommodation. After all, you can pay for exectuive/club rooms in many hotels! Not sure it would be possible to give immediate refunds though.