Nightstock Question

[NightStar]

GidDay! Hi my name is Robert Lewis. I live in the United States and I share an interest in British railways. I am also an avid HO scale model railway enthuaist, and I am actively involved in Microsoft Train Simulator which I do some repainting, and I am trying to learn 3d modeling. My first question for these new found forums has to do with the ill-fated nightstock train. I am interested in knowing at the time what classes of british diesel locomotive had redundant units that could have been converted to generator cars for use on the Belgium railways since they claimed they did not have a locomotive the could both pull, and power the ENS cars? Would something like the class 20 have been considered or some such? I have also heard over the years that there was a proposal for a Class 73 generator car for the Nightstar as well? Anyone have any drawings of this proposal? The reason I ask these questions is I want to model the Nightstar and have all the probable locomotives that might have been used to pull these trains.

My second question has to do with the Eurotunnel shunters. I was wondering if anyone could please share a couple of photos of the following items? I have seen some mentioning of these little locomotives, Class 0001 Diesel locomotive Rescue locomotive and the Class 0031 shunter locomotive. What I am looking for is information and photos of the Class 0001 exhaust scrubber wagons? I have never seen one so I do not know what they looked like? I would like to scratch build a model of these unique wagons if I can find a decent photograph? The other thing I am looking for is a decent shot of the Class 0031 shunters? I have never seen of these at all?

My next question is in regards to the number of units of the following?

I have heard since the Eurostar failures in the snow this past winter that Eurotunnel purchased two more Class 0001 locomotives? What are the numbers for these two additional units? And is there anything unique about these two from the other units?

Finally I remember seeing on Wikipedia before someone removed it? Something about Eurostar owning something like 6 or 8 Class 08 shunters with the Scharfenberg couplers? As far as I know they only have or had one class 08 with Scharfenberg couplers? So did they have more at one time when Eurostar was EPS?

In my quest to model these fine trains I have discovered Ehatton's site with fair prices on British model train stock. Does anyone know where else I could find a fair deal on the Class 373, Class 73 with Scharfenberg couplers, Class 37/6 locomotives, Class 08 switchers and possibly the Eurostar Barrier Wagons? Does anyone offer models of the Eurotunnel shuttle trains? How about the Class 0001 rescue locomotives, or the class 0031 shunters? I found Adam Warr's "Electra Railway graphics," but he only does N scale right now? I will probably end up modeling in N scale because I would like to use Adam's vinyl sides and the Graham Farish Mk4 cars. However I would prefer HO, or OO scale as you guys call it?

Other than the few articles in our "Model Railroader" Magazine I am not that familiar with British models? I don't even own a model right now of a British train. However my interest in British trains has to do with the real ones. Specifically the steamers and the Class 37 locomotives.

Can anyone suggest a good magazine for British Model Railroading? Also would importing every month Rail magazine be worth while? Or are there better magazines than Rail?


Robert

 

[hairyhandedfool]

GidDay! Hi my name is Robert Lewis. I live in the United States and I share an interest in British railways....

Hello.

....In my quest to model these fine trains I have discovered Ehatton's site with fair prices on British model train stock. Does anyone know where else I could find a fair deal on the Class 373, Class 73 with Scharfenberg couplers, Class 37/6 locomotives, Class 08 switchers and possibly the Eurostar Barrier Wagons? Does anyone offer models of the Eurotunnel shuttle trains? How about the Class 0001 rescue locomotives, or the class 0031 shunters? I found Adam Warr's "Electra Railway graphics," but he only does N scale right now? I will probably end up modeling in N scale because I would like to use Adam's vinyl sides and the Graham Farish Mk4 cars. However I would prefer HO, or OO scale as you guys call it?....

Hattons is one of the best dealers for bargains and it's quite rare to see another site/shop with lower prices for many models in my experience, but it does happen. most model railway magazines have a few different adverts for model retailers, but Hattons is the main one. Rails of Sheffield sell secondhand stock on ebay that is often in very good condition (I got two Farish 150s in near mint condition (one light didn't work) for less than £90 incl postage!).

As far as I know, the models of the 73s, 37/6s and 08s I have seen have just been the standard model with the appropriate numbers on, I think the barrier wagons would have to be converted or scratch-built. I've not seen a model of the shuttle locomotives, but that doesn't mean there isn't any.

OO is different to HO, but they do use the same track (a bit like European 'N', Japanese 'N' and British 'N'), If you're using the Mk4 to make the Nightstar stock, then Hornby make the MK4 in OO gauge, but use the GNER livery ones, the Intercity ones are rare enough as it is!

....Other than the few articles in our "Model Railroader" Magazine I am not that familiar with British models? I don't even own a model right now of a British train. However my interest in British trains has to do with the real ones. Specifically the steamers and the Class 37 locomotives.

Can anyone suggest a good magazine for British Model Railroading? Also would importing every month Rail magazine be worth while? Or are there better magazines than Rail?....

I personally don't rate RAIL magazine, I used to buy it every month, but now I find it is far too much text (and quite boring text at that) and not enough pictures (a picture speaks a thousand words). I do, however, get Model Rail, partly because I can find something in every issue to interest me, but also because it has a fair selection of adverts in the back.

Also, I would suggest Rail Express, it has it's own modelling section, has plenty to look at and read and has many articles on the modern railway (well from mid 80s onwards usually) with some images of typical (and sometimes rare) train formations (if on a type of train/wagon/coach/locomotive) or full lists of locomotive numbers (if the article is on a company or livery).

I believe both magazines can be ordered (on subscription or as a single magazine) from their own website for delivery abroad.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm not sure about continental operations, but in the UK, the stock would have been pulled by a class 92 electric loco on 3rd rail and OHL, and by a pair of Class 37 with a new-build generator van between them away from the wires.
here's a photo of the generator cars

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The five generator cars are former Mk3 sleeper vehicles.

 

[TGV]

Class 08's fitted with Scharfenbergs? Just the one.

 

[NightStar]

Guys thankyou for your responses! I am interested in modeling the Eurostar, Le shuttle, Nightstar in OO gauge. However I will probably choose N scale so I can use the Electra vinyl sides on the Graham Farish cars. I think I have found most of what I am looking for on various sites around the UK? However now I must do some planning?and put together an N scale english layout system. This will be alittle different from the American, and Canadian railroads I like to model here at home. The nice part will be the fact that I can most likely run a full rake consist of 18 cars for Eurostar, and 16 for nightstar!

Anyone know of any NS 6400 class diesel hydraulics like the rescue locomotives? How about something that resembles the Class 0031 shunters?


What I was hinting at was this. I heard in a post on the UKTrainsim site along time ago now someone suggest why didn't Nightstar consider pulling old British diesel locomotives off the scraplines and convert them into generator cars for use on the SNCB? One of the many reasons given for nightstar failing was that the SNCB did not have a locomotive that could both pull the train and provide ETS? I have not been able to find the post? But if I remember correctly the Class 20 was one of the units suggested for converting.


I heard about the Class 73 conversion from Dale Stewart who was the project manager for the Nightstock project. Unforunately Dale passed away a little while back now. I was unable to ask him in detail about all of this interesting stuff. I missed the chance by two weeks. I should have posted on www.UKTrainsim.com sooner and I would have had my answers I guess? Oh well! Stuff happens.

Here is his post from the UK Trainsim site from a while back were he mentioned the conversion. This was in regards to someone elses question.

Quote

Now therein lies a long tale! The trains were due to be hauled by Class 92's on British soil but it was quite complicated. The Swansea / Plymouth Waterloo trains were due to have the wierd 37 + Gen Van + 37 formation into Waterloo to swap for the Class 92 forward to Dollands Moor. However, the 92 would have overloaded the third rail hauling the train and running the services on board, so a Class 73 generator vehicle was planned, which would go on the rear and drop off at Dollands Moor, to be replaced by a 2nd 92 to go through the tunnel to Calais Ville Yard. There, both 92's would be replaced by an SNCF 26xxx electric to Bruxelles where an SNCB 13xx electric would go forward to either Roosendaal or Aachen. Yet another change at Aachen would see the 103xxx work forward to Koln / Dortmund. But, the 13xx and 103xxx were not compatible with the stock services, so it was planned for a Dutch 18xx loco to work to Amsterdam and on the German ones, a 232xxx diesel from DB to act as assisting Gen loco (for which I spent a week in East Germany photographing and trialling the couplings!). Oh and at Rugby, the Manchester section was due to have a 90 and a 90 was also booked for the ecs from Glasgow central to Polmadie for servicing. We spent weeks at Helemmes depot, Lille, with a set of Nightstar coaches and various loco's being dragged in, to try out all the permutations (not the 90/92/37 - they were done at North Pole) and we spent many nights working overnight from Washwood Heath Sidings to the Lichfield line for testing during the night. We also did some testing at Aachen. The responsibility for how the loco's would work the train was mine and it was a nightmare operation and fortunately never taken on or it would have been a disaster, operationally... Oh for a loco capable of working the train throughout!
Dale / BasilDD

End Quote




Robert

 

[bangor-toad]

Guys thankyou for your responses! I am interested in modeling the Eurostar, Le shuttle, Nightstar in OO gauge. However I will probably choose N scale so I can use the Electra vinyl sides on the Graham Farish cars.

Hi there,
If you're going for "N" scale then you've got the option of getting the Kato Eurostar and Kato Le Shuttle sets. These do exist but are quite rare and rather expensive!

Here's an ebay link (not mine!) for the Eurostar set.

Here's a link to a long closed e-bay auctio nshowing the Le Shuttle driving car. Kato made a whole set - I saw one once when I visited a Kato shop in Japan and it did look rather good!

For the truely cash-unlimited lottery winner out there, you could also go for a ful GNER "White Rose" set. (Eurostar sets used for normal UK services). Here's a Link for that...

Hope you get a good layout built,
Cheers,
Jason

 

[Kingfisher200262]

The five generator cars are former Mk3 sleeper vehicles.

I've never understood why the generator cars could not have been left in the formation when the Class 37 locos were dropped off so that they could be used to power the hotel services on the ENS in Belgium.

Frankly, I think this was a red herring.

 

[NightStar]

Hi there,
If you're going for "N" scale then you've got the option of getting the Kato Eurostar and Kato Le Shuttle sets. These do exist but are quite rare and rather expensive!

Here's an ebay link (not mine!) for the Eurostar set.

Here's a link to a long closed e-bay auctio nshowing the Le Shuttle driving car. Kato made a whole set - I saw one once when I visited a Kato shop in Japan and it did look rather good!

For the truely cash-unlimited lottery winner out there, you could also go for a ful GNER "White Rose" set. (Eurostar sets used for normal UK services). Here's a Link for that...

Hope you get a good layout built,
Cheers,
Jason

Jason, Thankyou for your reponse. I am thinking about the Kato set? But I must admit, I am looking for a Eurostar for around US $175 or there abouts? Money is one thing I do not have an endless supply of. I have plenty of ideas thou! Just most of them never go anywhere. The Le Shuttle is a rare set. And with atleast 4 different consist in use everyday it makes it a hard train to model. Before you mentioned the Kato set, I had never seen it in any scale before. I wonder who else makes the Eurostar in N scale? Someone else is bound to produce the Le Shuttle someday hopefully? I will continue to look and see what I can find?


The whole Nightstock consist was indeed ill-fated. I do not know for sure who designed the interior of the cars, or specified what the train services would be? But it was all badly designed from start to finish.

Robert