Night train - Milan to Palermo/Syracuse

[citycat]

I am trying to book this train for September but every date for the whole month seems to show 'The booking is temporarily unavailable for this date' on the TrenItalia website. In both directions.

Do any of our Italian correspondents happen to know what may be going on? I can book from Rome to Sicily on the night train with no problems but Milan would suit our trip better.

I am not sure whether to hold off booking to see if the train appears as available in the next week or two, or just play safe and book from Rome. If anybody happens to have any inside info, it would be great

 

[D6130]

Possibly affected by engineering works? @Iskra is the Italian sleeper expert. I prefer travelling during the day so that I can enjoy the scenery!

EDIT: I've just done a random search for the 15th September on the Trenitalia website for the 20 10 Milano Centrale to Palermo. Berths in 4 berth couchette compartments are available....but the sleepers are sold-out. I'm wondering whether the changeover from the old to the new (or refurbished) de-luxe stock with en-suite toilets and showers may be taking place during that period....perhaps causing a reduction in the number of sleeper berths available?

 

[citycat]

Possibly affected by engineering works? @Iskra is the Italian sleeper expert. I prefer travelling during the day so that I can enjoy the scenery!

EDIT: I've just done a random search for the 15th September on the Trenitalia website for the 20 10 Milano Centrale to Palermo. Berths in 4 berth couchette compartments are available....but the sleepers are sold-out. I'm wondering whether the changeover from the old to the new (or refurbished) de-luxe stock with en-suite toilets and showers may be taking place during that period....perhaps causing a reduction in the number of sleeper berths available?

You are correct. The 15th comes up and some other dates too now. Just not the dates I’m looking for.

Maybe the train is indeed booked up? I was just wondering why it said temporarily unavailable?

No worries, will book via Rome instead. Thanks for looking for me D6130. I will also be doing lots of daytime travel in Italy so not missing out on too much scenery.

 

[rvdborgt]

When the train is fully booked, it will say so, e.g. on 17/7: "Posti Esauriti sul treno 1963. Soluzione non acquistabile."
When it says that the booking is temporarily unavailable, then you can't book yet and reservations will open later. Keep checking regularly.

 

[doc7austin]

@citycat The night trains from Milan to Sicily are often only released for booking at very short notice (typically, 4-6 weeks before travel).
Because these trains travel a long distance, they are most affected by engineering works in the network.
Moreover, the Italian Government is subsidizing these trains - but apparently, there is no long-term commitment in place. Thus, Trenitalia opens booking only when funding is secured.

 

[HS2isgood]

There is nowadays money commitment, that's why new stock has been ordered, for now 70 coaches, but they intend to purchase the full 370. The new stock is poorly designed tho.

 

[rvdborgt]

The new stock is poorly designed tho.

Just curious: what's not good about it?

 

[AdamWW]

There is nowadays money commitment, that's why new stock has been ordered, for now 70 coaches, but they intend to purchase the full 370. The new stock is poorly designed tho.

And didn't they also get new ferries for the route not that long ago?

 

[D6130]

And didn't they also get new ferries for the route not that long ago?

Yes....although the same fleet of train ferries are also used on the - now freight only - service between Civitavecchia and Golfo Aranci in Sardinia.

 

[AlterEgo]

There is nowadays money commitment, that's why new stock has been ordered, for now 70 coaches, but they intend to purchase the full 370. The new stock is poorly designed tho.

When is the new stock likely to start running?

 

[D6130]

When is the new stock likely to start running?

I believe it's already running on one of the routes....but I can't remember which one. @Iskra may know.

 

[citycat]

@citycat The night trains from Milan to Sicily are often only released for booking at very short notice (typically, 4-6 weeks before travel).
Because these trains travel a long distance, they are most affected by engineering works in the network.
Moreover, the Italian Government is subsidizing these trains - but apparently, there is no long-term commitment in place. Thus, Trenitalia opens booking only when funding is secured.

Thanks for the info. However, it leaves one of those frustrating conundrums.

I have booked to Sicily outbound on the Rome night train. Coming back, the Milan service is the ideal one as we need to get to Ventimiglia for our overnight lodging and it would mean an early afternoon arrival. Going back from Sicily via Rome means a couple of extra changes onto day trains and a late evening arrival. Now do I wait to see if the Milan train opens up for bookings, or do I play safe and book the Rome service while the fares on it are still reasonable. It's one of those gambles. Ah well, I'll wait a few days and decide.

Edit: I see there are further possible travel options by changing into the Reggio di Calabria to Turin night service which will get us to Genoa and the Italian Riviera route. I need to play around further on the TrenItalia journey planner.

Just for extra info, we are eventually heading to Toulon to catch the overnight ferry to Alcudia on the island of Mallorca, and then to ride the Soller railway, before flying back to the Netherlands. I will write a trip report when I get back.

By the way, I enjoy your YT rail videos Doc7austin.

 

[D6130]

Edit: I see there are further possible travel options by changing into the Reggio di Calabria to Turin night service which will get us to Genoa and the Italian Riviera route. I need to play around further on the TrenItalia journey planner.

When I am staying at our house in Italy, I often see the Reggio Calabria - Torino overnight train passing through Arezzo, Pontassieve or Firenze Campo di Marte running very late -sometimes hours late - although on one occasion a few years ago, while changing trains at Torino Porta Susa en route from the UK to Tuscany, I managed to get a video of it arriving exactly on time. There must be quite a wide recovery margin built into the schedule....although not in the range of several hours I would have thought.

 

[Tester]

I think Trenitalia's change/refund conditions are quite generous, so it might be worth booking your backup, and changing it later if possible.

Certainly I had no difficulty changing Interrail Sicily sleeper reservations without charge in May.

 

[Iskra]

When I am staying at our house in Italy, I often see the Reggio Calabria - Torino overnight train passing through Arezzo, Pontassieve or Firenze Campo di Marte running very late -sometimes hours late - although on one occasion a few years ago, while changing trains at Torino Porta Susa en route from the UK to Tuscany, I managed to get a video of it arriving exactly on time. There must be quite a wide recovery margin built into the schedule....although not in the range of several hours I would have thought.

The 'West Coast' Italian sleepers have always appeared to be incredibly delay-prone in my experience, both from my travels and observations. However, the 'East Coast' sleepers are a stark contrast and have never let me down for my (until a recent timetable change) 10 minutes connection at Taranto onto the Ionian Coast Line.

I have no information on the new sleeper stock unfortunately.

 

[rvdborgt]

When I am staying at our house in Italy, I often see the Reggio Calabria - Torino overnight train passing through Arezzo, Pontassieve or Firenze Campo di Marte running very late -sometimes hours late - although on one occasion a few years ago, while changing trains at Torino Porta Susa en route from the UK to Tuscany, I managed to get a video of it arriving exactly on time. There must be quite a wide recovery margin built into the schedule....although not in the range of several hours I would have thought.

I used the Palermo-Milan a few years ago. It was almost 1 hour late in Salerno but then made up lots of time and arrived half an hour early. That was with the route via Genova and planned arrival in Milan at 11:20. We would have made the 10:43 RE to Lugano if not for the very slow arrival into Centrale. We did catch the 11:20 EC to Frankfurt.

 

[AdamWW]

I used the Palermo-Milan a few years ago. It was almost 1 hour late in Salerno but then made up lots of time and arrived half an hour early. That was with the route via Genova and planned arrival in Milan at 11:20. We would have made the 10:43 RE to Lugano if not for the very slow arrival into Centrale. We did catch the 11:20 EC to Frankfurt.

When I did it (also a few years go), it left even later than that. And was still on time by Florence.

 

[Krokodil]

I had no difficulties booking a berth in a Syracuse-Milan couchette just a few days ahead recently.