Night Riviera cabin supplement with advance tickets

[MrJeeves]

I was browsing GWR's site to look at Night Riviera journeys, and noticed that it seems to be impossible to purchase a cabin supplement for the sleeper if you're buying an Advance.



Is this an intentional decision to try to milk passengers who want a cabin for as much as possible? If I were to buy the Advance, then call up GWR telesales for the supplement separately, am I likely to run into issues when trying to purchase it? Would I have issues on board?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

It's intentional. The supplement is also dynamically priced, there's no fixed amount.

If you want the Advance fare, you could buy it and ask the Train Manager on the night to upgrade to a berth, but it would obviously depend on availability. It's getting into the quiet period now.

 

[MrJeeves]

Not sure it'll be quite as quiet for the run into/out of Euston in November!

 

[Haywain]

Is this an intentional decision to try to milk passengers who want a cabin for as much as possible?

Yes, it's been like that for a few years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder what the reason for them selling it as Super Off Peak + cabin supplement is? Does it split between two separate accounting units more cleanly or something? Caledonian Sleeper don't sell in that way (unless you choose to as you had an existing walk up ticket).

 

[paul1609]

Not sure it'll be quite as quiet for the run into/out of Euston in November!

I'd expect that at least 2 coaches of cabins will be booked by the competing you tube channels.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'd expect that at least 2 coaches of cabins will be booked by the competing you tube channels.

Not a great video idea to be honest. It all happens in the dark - the IETs which travel during the day are much more view-worthy in my opinion!

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I wonder what the reason for them selling it as Super Off Peak + cabin supplement is? Does it split between two separate accounting units more cleanly or something? Caledonian Sleeper don't sell in that way (unless you choose to as you had an existing walk up ticket).

I suspect ultimately it's just a case that the train requires huge amounts of subsidy / makes a loss. No need to offer discount Advance fares if the market will pay more. I suspect it's still fairly competitive when factoring in hotel prices these days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect ultimately it's just a case that the train requires huge amounts of subsidy / makes a loss. No need to offer discount Advance fares if the market will pay more. I suspect it's still fairly competitive when factoring in hotel prices these days.

Sure, but in that case you'd just charge a lot for inclusive tickets like the Cally does. The thing I'm wondering is why they sell it as two separate tickets to everyone.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Sure, but in that case you'd just charge a lot for inclusive tickets like the Cally does. The thing I'm wondering is why they sell it as two separate tickets to everyone.

Probably makes the administration easier in the event something goes wrong.

Swap it for a Hitachi set and you've only got the berth supplement to refund.

Caledonian Sleeper must get some hefty delays repay claims, some of which is probably a little unfair, as compensation ought to be based on the travel cost in my view, rather than everything that's packaged into it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably makes the administration easier in the event something goes wrong.

Swap it for a Hitachi set and you've only got the berth supplement to refund.

Only if you don't know what "good customer service" is. If one has booked to travel in a bed, a full refund if they travel as booked but in a seat or a free hotel night followed by a day train are the sort of things that should be offered.

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

Is this an intentional decision to try to milk passengers who want a cabin for as much as possible? If I were to buy the Advance, then call up GWR telesales for the supplement separately, am I likely to run into issues when trying to purchase it? Would I have issues on board?

I had an chat with GWR telesales staff when booking the Night Riviera in June around this. They were unable to sell me the advance fare over the phone - but are perfectly happy to sell a cabin reservation to you once you've bought an advance ticket, which I did online while on the phone to them. Saved us about £40 pp.

**EDIT** this is evidently not correct procedure

 

[CyrusWuff]

I had an chat with GWR telesales staff when booking the Night Riviera in June around this. They were unable to sell me the advance fare over the phone - but are perfectly happy to sell a cabin reservation to you once you've bought an advance ticket, which I did online while on the phone to them. So, I'd recommend that as an approach. Saved us about £40 pp.

Oh dear. Berth supplements are explicitly not valid with an Advance ticket on the Night Riviera. Not that you'd know it from GWR's website other than a subtle mention in the "Refunds and Cancellations" fold out:

Supplement Refunds
Refunds can be requested up to 7 days before the planned date and time of arrival. After this time no refunds apply.  How early you cancel will affect what we refund.

In addition, there will be a £10 admin charge per booking (not ticket) when we calculate the refund of your train tickets (Anytime, Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak).

 

[MrJeeves]

Oh dear. Berth supplements are explicitly not valid with an Advance ticket on the Night Riviera. Not that you'd know it from GWR's website other than a subtle mention in the "Refunds and Cancellations" fold out:

I can't see anything in your quote that suggests supplements aren't valid with the advance? It's simply talking about refund rights, and advances are not refundable in most circumstances.

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

Oh dear. Berth supplements are explicitly not valid with an Advance ticket on the Night Riviera. Not that you'd know it from GWR's website other than a subtle mention in the "Refunds and Cancellations" fold out:

Just for clarity on this - does this mean that the GWR staff on the other end of the line made an error in selling these tickets to me, and by extension we were travelling with invalid tickets?

I wonder also what the follow-on implication is - it seems to me that if GWR staff will sell you the cabin berth supplement knowing you hold an advance ticket, you'd have reasonable grounds on which to say you believe you hold a valid ticket if this was challenged on the train.

I can't recall how diligently they were checked by the on-train staff, but they must have at least inspected our cabin reservation.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Just for clarity on this - does this mean that the GWR staff on the other end of the line made an error in selling these tickets to me, and by extension we were travelling with invalid tickets?

I wonder also what the follow-on implication is - it seems to me that if GWR staff will sell you the cabin berth supplement knowing you hold an advance ticket, you'd have reasonable grounds on which to say you believe you hold a valid ticket if this was challenged on the train.

I can't recall how diligently they were checked by the on-train staff, but they must have at least inspected our cabin reservation.

It's likely an outsourced call centre, no GWR staff have sold you those tickets.

However, they are likely authorised agents on behalf of GWR, so you can rely on the information you are given and tickets you are sold. It would have been open to revenue protection teams or the Train Manager to withdraw the tickets and issue an irregularity report - although this would be wholly an internal process, as a customer you wouldn't be held responsible for that kind of error.

Worst case, GWR would write to you asking for assistance clarifying how the situation occurred, but I very much doubt it. Most likely is the Train Manager reports the matter internally and you'd not even know about it.

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

It's likely an outsourced call centre, no GWR staff have sold you those tickets.

However, they are likely authorised agents on behalf of GWR, so you can rely on the information you are given and tickets you are sold. It would have been open to revenue protection teams or the Train Manager to withdraw the tickets and issue an irregularity report - although this would be wholly an internal process, as a customer you wouldn't be held responsible for that kind of error.

Worst case, GWR would write to you asking for assistance clarifying how the situation occurred, but I very much doubt it. Most likely is the Train Manager reports the matter internally and you'd not even know about it.

Thanks for the response. I wonder if this has been replicated by anyone else - or if it would be replicable again in future.

I've edited my original comment to withdraw my recommendation!

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Thanks for the response. I wonder if this has been replicated by anyone else - or if it would be replicable again in future.

I've edited my original comment to withdraw my recommendation!

I don't think what you suggested is wrong.

If the call centre issues the tickets and supplement, it's a binding contract. Not your problem as the customer if they do it wrong. Yes it may have some implications down the line, but nothing bad will come of it.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I can't see anything in your quote that suggests supplements aren't valid with the advance? It's simply talking about refund rights, and advances are not refundable in most circumstances.

It's not specifically stated, more implied by the mention of refunding the train tickets. Advance tickets, of course, being generally non-refundable.

The only explicit mention, however, is on the Night Riviera page on Knowledgbase...which isn't customer-facing.

 

[Haywain]

Just for clarity on this - does this mean that the GWR staff on the other end of the line made an error in selling these tickets to me, and by extension we were travelling with invalid tickets?

No. You had a valid ticket and you had a valid berth reservation and the fact that they (probably) should not have been sold together doesn't alter that.

 

[Mainline421]

I wonder what the reason for them selling it as Super Off Peak + cabin supplement is? Does it split between two separate accounting units more cleanly or something? Caledonian Sleeper don't sell in that way (unless you choose to as you had an existing walk up ticket).

I don't know but this is actually massively in the passenger's favour compared to selling it as an expensive advance so I really don't see why people here are complaining about it!

Edit:thinking about it, it seems obvious to account for Interrail, through tickets, ALRs etc.

 

[Argyle 1980]

From experience, I use it quite often and there are a few things you can do depending on time of year and how far in advance you book. As with the majority of GWRs advance fares from Cornwall/Plymouth to and from Paddington, they seem to save very very little in recent months and for return journeys then a walk up return is now normally cheaper than two restricted advance singles. If you do find an advance fare for the sleeper that does offer a significant saving against a super off peak fare then you can just buy the advance fare and then call GWR or go to a station with your ticket and buy a berth separately, though it will be at the fixed price advertised (usually £90 minimum for solo) as if you were upgrading onboard on standby. Both of these options are subject to availability of course. The last few times i have used it i have found it cheaper buying a super off peak fare on GWRs site or browser (NOT APP) and the berth upgrade in same transaction, this way can be as low as £40 for a solo (that is what i have paid for November 5th) A super off peak return Plymouth to Folkestone and a berth upgrade for the return journey in evening. At the time i booked it a month ago, two advance singles saved less that £2 against a super off peak return, plus the berth would have been another £90 minimum.

Edit, just notice you were booking a twin so ignore the sums i posted as they are solo prices, but the theory is still the same that berths booked well in advance as part of a super?off peak ticket are usually substantially less than the onboard or booked separately price. Are you only making a single journey?

 

[philthetube]

Sure, but in that case you'd just charge a lot for inclusive tickets like the Cally does. The thing I'm wondering is why they sell it as two separate tickets to everyone.

To catch the priv holders.