Nigel Farage

[Wyvern]

On a whim I looked up Nigel Farge in Wikipedia. It says about his career " In 1982 he joined the London commodity brokerage firm Drexel Burnham Lambert.[11] In 1986, he joined Credit Lyonnais Rouse.[11] He joined Refco in 1994, and Natexis Metals in 2003."

In other words he's a banker - one of the very people got us in the state we are today?

I might add one of the things the EU wants to do is to place limits on the reckless behaviour of the City of London. No wonder he wants us out of Europe.

 

[SS4]

I chuckled out loud when I heard that Niggle Farage called the protestors fascists. Oh the irony.

UKIP will go the way of the BNP in the next few years - a complete joke party. Oh wait, that's what they are anyway.

They'll let the EDL do their dirty work. Politically, I see very little difference between the two. Just goes to show what charisma and buddies in the media does for you!

 

[Seacook]

They'll let the EDL do their dirty work. Politically, I see very little difference between the two. Just goes to show what charisma and buddies in the media does for you!

Nigel Farage has always struck me as having charisntma.

 

[Chapeltom]

I chuckled out loud when I heard that Niggle Farage called the protestors fascists. Oh the irony.

UKIP will go the way of the BNP in the next few years - a complete joke party. Oh wait, that's what they are anyway.

Oh dear, your post is probably the funniest and most ill informed bile I've read in a while.

How are UKIP fascists or are you another one of the morons on the left wing who supposedly support free speech and other liberal ideas but only if people agree with what your saying? Whatever happened to Voltaire's quotation, oh wait... Its sheer hypocrisy from the left, "I love free speech but I don't agree with your views, so your a fascist" its one of the most over used words in politics and usually used by someone desperate to fight back against a point they find controversial and don't agree with.

Are UKIP only a joke of a party because of what you read/seen in the media and have you ever actually read the party's policies or are they a joke because you are scared of their progression? UKIP and the BNP are polar opposites, UKIP = free market, right wing economic ideas, BNP = protectionist, left wing, socialism - everything UKIP despises, I despise protectionism and in particular EU protectionism as its a stupid policy that history tells you has rarely if ever worked. If I was in charge of the UK I'd have let the banks hit the wall, they didn't deserve to be bailed out, that policy has worked well in Iceland. Many of UKIPs younger members like myself are Libertarian minded, yes we have like every party a problem with a few clowns, a few racists, all parties have their idiots, UKIP are no exception.

I'm a Libertarian minded member of UKIP, why? Firstly I despise big government and EU withdrawal is the first stage of that, then we need to reduce the size of the state here in the UK. I don't care for social issues at this present time, the first stage is getting EU withdrawal which UKIP advocates and then we'll see where we go from there.

 

[Johnuk123]

Oh dear, your post is probably the funniest and most ill informed bile I've read in a while.

How are UKIP fascists or are you another one of the morons on the left wing who supposedly support free speech and other liberal ideas but only if people agree with what your saying? Whatever happened to Voltaire's quotation, oh wait... Its sheer hypocrisy from the left, "I love free speech but I don't agree with your views, so your a fascist" its one of the most over used words in politics and usually used by someone desperate to fight back against a point they find controversial and don't agree with.

Are UKIP only a joke of a party because of what you read/seen in the media and have you ever actually read the party's policies or are they a joke because you are scared of their progression? UKIP and the BNP are polar opposites, UKIP = free market, right wing economic ideas, BNP = protectionist, left wing, socialism - everything UKIP despises, I despise protectionism and in particular EU protectionism as its a stupid policy that history tells you has rarely if ever worked. If I was in charge of the UK I'd have let the banks hit the wall, they didn't deserve to be bailed out, that policy has worked well in Iceland. Many of UKIPs younger members like myself are Libertarian minded, yes we have like every party a problem with a few clowns, a few racists, all parties have their idiots, UKIP are no exception.

I'm a Libertarian minded member of UKIP, why? Firstly I despise big government and EU withdrawal is the first stage of that, then we need to reduce the size of the state here in the UK. I don't care for social issues at this present time, the first stage is getting EU withdrawal which UKIP advocates and then we'll see where we go from there.

Blimey, the first post for a long time talking a bit of sense.

 

[Wyvern]

The problem is its the neoliberal free market experiment over the last thirty or so years, with no control over the banks that has got us in the mess we are today.

 

[Butts]

Oh dear, your post is probably the funniest and most ill informed bile I've read in a while.

How are UKIP fascists or are you another one of the morons on the left wing who supposedly support free speech and other liberal ideas but only if people agree with what your saying? Whatever happened to Voltaire's quotation, oh wait... Its sheer hypocrisy from the left, "I love free speech but I don't agree with your views, so your a fascist" its one of the most over used words in politics and usually used by someone desperate to fight back against a point they find controversial and don't agree with.

Are UKIP only a joke of a party because of what you read/seen in the media and have you ever actually read the party's policies or are they a joke because you are scared of their progression? UKIP and the BNP are polar opposites, UKIP = free market, right wing economic ideas, BNP = protectionist, left wing, socialism - everything UKIP despises, I despise protectionism and in particular EU protectionism as its a stupid policy that history tells you has rarely if ever worked. If I was in charge of the UK I'd have let the banks hit the wall, they didn't deserve to be bailed out, that policy has worked well in Iceland. Many of UKIPs younger members like myself are Libertarian minded, yes we have like every party a problem with a few clowns, a few racists, all parties have their idiots, UKIP are no exception.

I'm a Libertarian minded member of UKIP, why? Firstly I despise big government and EU withdrawal is the first stage of that, then we need to reduce the size of the state here in the UK. I don't care for social issues at this present time, the first stage is getting EU withdrawal which UKIP advocates and then we'll see where we go from there.

Can you explain UKIP's lack of popularity outside of England , they have no elected representatives in Scotland or much popular support.

 

[SS4]

I hope they don't try and do away with the Eurovision song contest

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'm a Libertarian minded member of UKIP, why? Firstly I despise big government and EU withdrawal is the first stage of that, then we need to reduce the size of the state here in the UK. I don't care for social issues at this present time, the first stage is getting EU withdrawal which UKIP advocates and then we'll see where we go from there.

Agree with everything you said, especially this. One of the reasons I'm a UKIP member is not because I support everything they say, but because I genuinely believe they are the only realistic prospect of mainstream libertarian politics in the UK. One quote I love and sums it up well is 'The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians' - George Orwell. The smaller the government the better as far as I'm concerned. America's Founding Fathers had a very decent go at it, but modern day US politics has shifted from that ideology somewhat.

Regarding social issues, the only real belief that libertarians share IMO, and I think it's wonderful, is that none of us know what's best for other people.

 

[Chapeltom]

Can you explain UKIP's lack of popularity outside of England , they have no elected representatives in Scotland or much popular support.

No idea, probably because England is the biggest constituent part of the United Kingdom and people think, UKIP = is English nationalism. Its not an easy job trying to be a nationalist party for the UK when you have Scotland trying to break away. I've no feelings for/against Scottish independence, my Grandma was Scottish, a proud Aberdonian and being a liberal minded person I support the right to self-determination, if Scotland choses "yes" in 2014, I'd accept that.

Other parts of the UK probably look at UKIP and think its more suited/booted middle aged white Englishmen trying to bully us/boss us around. Scotland and Wales are more left wing than Britain, take them away and Labour lose a hell of a lot of seats. Take the 2010 election and take Wales/Scotland away

Seats with: 650
Seats without: 550

Conservative seats with: 306
Conservative seats without: 295

Labour seats with: 258
Labour seats without: 191

You'd have a Conservative majority in 2010 without Scotland/Wales and some may argue the loss isn't that much, but when 2/3rds of seats in those countries are Labour and around 10% are Conservative, it would definitely change the face of elections.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Take the 2010 election and take Wales/Scotland away

Seats with: 650
Seats without: 550

Conservative seats with: 306
Conservative seats without: 295

Labour seats with: 258
Labour seats without: 191

You'd have a Conservative majority in 2010 without Scotland/Wales and some may argue the loss isn't that much, but when 2/3rds of seats in those countries are Labour and around 10% are Conservative, it would definitely change the face of elections.

Indeed. I wonder just how Scottish independence would affect the Labour Party. Assuming Scotland as a result didn't get any seats in Westminster any more Labour would have a hell of a job getting a majority relying on (industrial bits of) Northern England and only the very large urban areas down south...

 

[Lampshade]

Indeed. I wonder just how Scottish independence would affect the Labour Party. Assuming Scotland as a result didn't get any seats in Westminster any more Labour would have a hell of a job getting a majority relying on (industrial bits of) Northern England and only the very large urban areas down south...

Exactly why Labour keep saying an English parliament would "undermine the union". In other words they don't want an English parliament because they'd have bugger all representation on said parliament.

I chuckled out loud when I heard that Niggle Farage called the protestors fascists. Oh the irony.

You don't defeat your political opponents with a lynch mob or by shouting them down.

 

[Chapeltom]

Agree with everything you said, especially this. One of the reasons I'm a UKIP member is not because I support everything they say, but because I genuinely believe they are the only realistic prospect of mainstream libertarian politics in the UK. One quote I love and sums it up well is 'The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians' - George Orwell. The smaller the government the better as far as I'm concerned. America's Founding Fathers had a very decent go at it, but modern day US politics has shifted from that ideology somewhat.

Regarding social issues, the only real belief that libertarians share IMO, and I think it's wonderful, is that none f us know what's best for other people.

I despise politicians trying to tell people what is right/wrong to put in their bodies, the government launched their war on smokers and demonized them, but I'm not a smoker, if someone wants to smoke, let them, their choice, their life. You've got to let people be responsible for themselves, I'm also a huge critic of the costly and virtually pointless drugs war, we should not support it, drugs are a medical issue. Legalise drugs, it would reduce a lot of crime in this country, people will not start going to taking heroin or crack cocaine if it was legal, no matter what some people will tell you.

 

[Manchester77]

The fewer people that smoke, the fewer numbers of people using the NHS with smoking related health issues and so meaning that we don't have to pay for treatment saving money

That just my understanding

 

[radamfi]

UKIP = libertarian?

But they want to stop us living and working where we want. Libertarians are traditionally in favour of open borders.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

... And a lot of libertarians would also say that whilst we have things such as a large welfare state and an increase in people or groups seemingly hell bent for obliterating Western countries (i.e. terrorists of any flavour) that really isn't an viable option at the moment.

Edit - also see what I said about 'not knowing what is best for others' - libertarianism essentially is just everyone doing what they want so long as it doesn't infringe the law, or property or person of others. There are very few set in stone ideologies, even with what you would call 'tradition', especially in a modern world.

 

[Butts]

The fewer people that smoke, the fewer numbers of people using the NHS with smoking related health issues and so meaning that we don't have to pay for treatment saving money

That just my understanding

That might be a valid argument if the Tax raised by Tobacco Duty was not three times the amount smoking related diseases cost the NHS.

In addition have you ever wondered how much the Government saves in Pensions and Benefits not paid to croaked smokers who die prematurely ?
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I hope they don't try and do away with the Eurovision song contest

Agree...just watching Bonnie performing on the said Eurovision as I type this
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Indeed. I wonder just how Scottish independence would affect the Labour Party. Assuming Scotland as a result didn't get any seats in Westminster any more Labour would have a hell of a job getting a majority relying on (industrial bits of) Northern England and only the very large urban areas down south...

So what we can say is basically England is a Conservative Country while Scotland and Wales are Labour Countries with regard to Politics.
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I despise politicians trying to tell people what is right/wrong to put in their bodies, the government launched their war on smokers and demonized them, but I'm not a smoker, if someone wants to smoke, let them, their choice, their life. You've got to let people be responsible for themselves, I'm also a huge critic of the costly and virtually pointless drugs war, we should not support it, drugs are a medical issue. Legalise drugs, it would reduce a lot of crime in this country, people will not start going to taking heroin or crack cocaine if it was legal, no matter what some people will tell you.

I certainly agree with the above and UKIP's most sensible Policy proposal to partially rescind The Smoking Ban.

 

[SS4]

I think I read somewhere that they deny climate change. However, their energy policy is giving me an error 404.

 

[Lampshade]

I think I read somewhere that they deny climate change. However, their energy policy is giving me an error 404.

Not denial, but sceptical about the existence of man-made climate change.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

From their 2010 Manifesto, with the usual warnings that it may not reflect current policy etc. As Lampshade says, not absolute denial, just scepticism:

11 Energy & the Environment

UKIP accepts that the world’s climate changes, but we are the first party to take a sceptical stance on man-made global warming claims. We called for a rational, balanced approach to the climate debate in 2008, before the extensive manipulation of scientific data first became clear. Polls now show a majority of the British people share this scepticism despite protests from another LibLabCon-sensus. UKIP now calls for an immediate halt to unjustified spending on renewable sources that has led to massive energy price hikes and fuel poverty. UKIP will:

· Increase nuclear power generation to provide up to 50% of our electricity needs. Because Britain’s domestic energy plants are ageing and renewable energy sources have been shown to be unreliable, UKIP will pass hybrid Acts of Parliament to accelerate the planning process and allow old reactors to be replaced

· Support the efficient extraction of indigenous coal for use in cleaner, coal-fired electricity generation plants

· Oppose wind farms in general and require large new wind power schemes to be funded by the market. Most current schemes have proved uneconomic, often operating at less than a third of capacity - sometimes less than a tenth *- thereby producing a derisory amount of power

· Ensure any large new wind farms are constructed offshore. UKIP regards onshore wind turbines and the accompanying power lines as eyesores in beautiful countryside

· Repeal the UK’s Climate Change Act and return to a Department of Energy

· Immediately repeal disastrous EU Directives such as the Large Combustion Plant Directive. This Directive threatens to put the lights out by closing a quarter of the UK’s domestic coal and energy plants by 2015 without providing any realistic, working alternatives. UKIP will pull out of EU Carbon Trading Schemes, the proposed EU Carbon Tax and binding targets on renewable and bio fuels

· Stop funding the UN’s International Panel on Climate Change and the UN Framework Convention, and fund the Met Office according to forecast accuracy

· Establish a Royal Commission under a High Court Judge that will allow scientists to reach a conclusion about the facts and economic implications of global warming

· Ban schools from using global warming propaganda such as Al Gore’s film ‘An Inconvenient Truth’

· Divert billions of pounds of funding from wasteful global warming-related spending toward environmental improvements of real value

· Encourage the reduction of waste and promote effective methods of recycling

· Incentivise and support electric road vehicles, the comprehensive electrification of rail lines and accompanying infrastructure

· Reduce environmental bureaucracy to a minimum - consistent with good practice and international standards - while ensuring necessary legislation is effectively enforced

· Protect the environment by controlling immigration and the associated building demand

· Invest in more flood and coastal defences

 

[SS4]

Cheers guys

We called for a rational, balanced approach to the climate debate in 2008, before the extensive manipulation of scientific data first became clear

Wasn't it proven that there was no manipulation of the actual data (assuming it's the university of East Anglia's research)? Rather it was in what was put out to the papers which needed to be dumbed down significantly that caused the controversy.

Still, can't argue with their aim to use nuclear power

 

[transmanche]

So what we can say is basically England is a Conservative Country while Scotland and Wales are Labour Countries with regard to Politics.

I think it's more correct to say that parts of England are Conservative Country. The 'industrial north' and large parts of London are most definitely not.

 

[12CSVT]

, BNP = protectionist, left wing, socialism
.

Since when have BNP been a left of centre party ? Do they even have any policy on redistribution of wealth, employment law, job creation etc ?

 

[Johnuk123]

If there was a vote we would vote to stay in Europe, so I don't see what all the fuss is about

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-third-place-above-the-lib-dems-8622281.html

In this latest poll 1 in 4 people say they would vote to stay in.

46% say they would vote to leave today and I can assure you this is only going to keep on growing.

Anti-EU sentiment is now totally unstoppable, Europe is stumbling from one crisis to another with 1 in 2 people unemployed in some countries after 5 years of European recession.

What people need to remember is that UKIP have never said they want to rule only to force a change.They are rapidly achieving this at a rate they could only dream of couple of years ago.

If in some future date this country voted to come out of Europe UKIP would disband immediately as they then would have achieved the purpose they set out with.

 

[Butts]

I think it's more correct to say that parts of England are Conservative Country. The 'industrial north' and large parts of London are most definitely not.

True - overall though on the figures that were quoted The Conservatives had a majority in England unlike Scotland or Wales. Indeed in rural parts of Scotland and Wales Nationalists Liberals and the odd Conservative are in the majority.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-third-place-above-the-lib-dems-8622281.html

In this latest poll 1 in 4 people say they would vote to stay in.

46% say they would vote to leave today and I can assure you this is only going to keep on growing.

Anti-EU sentiment is now totally unstoppable, Europe is stumbling from one crisis to another with 1 in 2 people unemployed in some countries after 5 years of European recession.

What people need to remember is that UKIP have never said they want to rule only to force a change.They are rapidly achieving this at a rate they could only dream of couple of years ago.

If in some future date this country voted to come out of Europe UKIP would disband immediately as they then would have achieved the purpose they set out with.

If it came to the crunch my belief is we would vote to stay in.

 

[Johnuk123]

If it came to the crunch my belief is we would vote to stay in.

I would have said the same a year ago, but with the pace UKIP are gaining ground things have changed.

All the talk about UKIP not getting any m.'p's because of our strange voting system misses the point.

Getting into Parliament will be a bonus but not essential, the more votes they take off every party the more those parties will have to change.

 

[SS4]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-third-place-above-the-lib-dems-8622281.html

In this latest poll 1 in 4 people say they would vote to stay in.

46% say they would vote to leave today and I can assure you this is only going to keep on growing.

Anti-EU sentiment is now totally unstoppable, Europe is stumbling from one crisis to another with 1 in 2 people unemployed in some countries after 5 years of European recession.

What people need to remember is that UKIP have never said they want to rule only to force a change.They are rapidly achieving this at a rate they could only dream of couple of years ago.

If in some future date this country voted to come out of Europe UKIP would disband immediately as they then would have achieved the purpose they set out with.

What do you expect when the anti-EU lot have total control of the Press? Indeed, I'm surprised it's as high as 1 in 4! I'd vote to stay in without a second thought, our economy needs the EU and there is no guarantee they'd let us join the EEA.

UKIP's danger is in forcing the Tories even further right to the detriment of millions

 

[Chapeltom]

What do you expect when the anti-EU lot have total control of the Press? Indeed, I'm surprised it's as high as 1 in 4! I'd vote to stay in without a second thought, our economy needs the EU and there is no guarantee they'd let us join the EEA.

UKIP's danger is in forcing the Tories even further right to the detriment of millions

Our economy does not need to be shackled to a corpse, that is what the European Union is, its become increasing irrelevant in the world as its percentage of global trade declines and has been in decline for years. We need to be able to form our own trade deals, be able to freely trade with countries, we do not to be part of a protectionist EU, we do not need an EU trade commissioner negotiating deals on our behalf. If the likes of Turkey, Ukraine, etc smaller countries can trade without the EU (which of course relies on us more than we rely on them) then we can too. Leaving the European Union doesn't mean the economy freezes overnight, it means we can be free to trade with who we want in a globalised world and forge our own links with countries.

 

[transmanche]

our economy needs the EU and there is no guarantee they'd let us join the EEA.

Leaving the EU and joining EFTA and/or the EEA would be the worst of all worlds: you get all of the costs of running the single market and have to adopt all of the rules of the single market - but have none of the say.

"We are the most obedient of EU members, rapidly implementing directives to the letter, yet we have no say in them" Marit Warncke head of Bergen's chamber of commerce.​

If the likes of Turkey can trade without the EU

Would this be the same Turkey which has a customs union with the EU and is desperate to join the EU?

 

[yorksrob]

There haa certainly been a tendency for many countries including Turkey and perhaps even ourselves many moons ago to see EU membership as a panacea to cure all ills.Opinion within Turkey may be shifting on this, particularly given the noteably stand-offish attitude that some core members of the EU have taken to Turkish membership in recent years, not to mention that the Turkish economy is doing somewhat better than their neighbours who are trapped in a damaging exchange rate.