"Nice" and "Not so nice" units working in multiple

[FLIRTfan18]

I'm not sure if anyone has ever brought this up before, but I'm intrigued...
If two units are working in multiple, and one is clearly much better than the other, will passengers who know nothing about trains tend to get on the nicer one?
It came to mind after seeing 2 class 153s working with a 170 for WMR. If there was plenty of room on both units, why would anyone get on the far tattier 153?
An extreme example (and I'm pretty sure it isn't possible) but if a pacer was joined with a 195, would you find anyone on the pacer?
I'd be interested to hear your observations/opinions on these kind of situations

 

[PHILIPE]

I'm not sure if anyone has ever brought this up before, but I'm intrigued...
If two trains are working in multiple, and one is clearly much better than the other, will passengers who know nothing about trains tend to get on the nicer one?
It came to mind after seeing 2 class 153s working with a 170 for WMR. If there was plenty of room on both units, why would anyone get on the far tattier 153?
An extreme example (and I'm pretty sure it isn't possible) but if a pacer was joined with a 195, would you find anyone on the pacer?
I'd be interested to hear your observations/opinions on these kind of situations

A Pacer with a 195 would be hypothetical

 

[FLIRTfan18]

A Pacer with a 195 would be hypothetical

Indeed - Just a very extreme example to illustrate my point.

 

[StephenHunter]

There isn't really a huge amount of cross-class multiple working these days. In BR days, it was much more common and the Pacers/Sprinters can work together, but the Pacers are on their way out.

A more realistic situation would be found on the Continent where pure loco-hauled stock is still very much in play once you cross the old Iron Curtain and you may end up seeing carriages from two or more different countries in one train. My own personal observation comes from a trip from Vienna to Bratislava via Marchegg with an ÖBB Class 2016 hauling a Slovak carriage and three Austrian carriages:

https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?rok=2017&id=3688

With the temperature heading up to 30 degrees Celsius, it was a pretty obvious choice to go for the air-conditioned coach.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I’m not saying there is a problem with fate evasion but....

A dual 185 portion, people will look for the flashing body side light to see where the conductor is, then jump on the other unit!

 

[Huntergreed]

Not in my experience. I took a pacer coupled to a 150 last year, and the spread was about even from my observations (I started on the pacer and moved quickly to the 150, simply because I was standing on the wrong end of the first platform.)

One thing I have noticed though is in Scotland 318’s are much preferred over the 320’s they often work in multiple with, interesting because they’re very similar.

 

[PupCuff]

Depends on what you see as inferior I guess. When I used to live in Manchester if it was a cold evening and a 150+142 combo turned up it'd always be the 142 to go for as they tended to have a better heating:draught ratio. Likewise sometimes EMR run services ex Nottingham with a 158+156 or 158+153; if it's a hot day there's a real chance that the air con in the 158 will be knackered so it's actually more comfortable to sit in the other unit where you have more hopper windows so more of a draught when you're moving along.

 

[Non Multi]

A Pacer with Dellner couplers fitted and electrically compatible with current CAF DMUs! Ooof!

I had the pleasure of a FGW 158+153 combination on the Golden Valley line a few years ago. I suppose if you're only going one or two stops it doesn't really matter as much. Also, just having any seat in rush hour is better than standing all the way on the nicer train. Like the post above, the 153 would be the more cooler option if it was a really hot day and the 158's aircon had packed up.

 

[fgwrich]

ScotRail would until fairly recently bring you various 158 + 170 Formations, which I've ended up catching back to Linlithgow. More often than not it resulted in the "delights" of one of the former "Haymarket 8" 158s, or a travelling time machine on rails.

 

[Halish Railway]

Until the introduction of the 195s there were several 142 + 158 combos. Pre-Covid the 10:18 Leeds to York was a 155 + 144 (take your pick for the worse unit).

Nowadays there are several 158 (Fainsa seats) + 153s on the Rochdale to Blackburn/Clitheroe services.

 

[_SHR_]

I've caught a service from Shrewsbury to Birmingham before now, made up of a 150 and a 158. On the platform at Shrewsbury a lady took hold of her small son's hand, pointed at the 158 and said, "come on, we'll get in first class".

 

[Parallel]

For me personally, the biggest difference was a FGW 150/1 coupled to a SWT 158 that was on hire. A colleague who was catching the same train with me said the whole SWT train was like first class in comparison, as it rolled into the station! The difference between a dirty, run down 150/1 and a clean, bright 158... I'll leave it to your imagination which half we sat in.

14x/158 combos have been seen occasionally over the years on FGW/GWR and ATW/TfW.

 

[NoMorePacers]

I have seen 142 and 158 combinations on Northern as recently as February.

Mind you there are 150 and 170 combos roaming around, which is as good a parallel of unit quality as you can get on the Northern network.

 

[bussnapperwm]

I liked it when WMR put 170+153 combinations on the Snow hill lines. I used to duck onto the 153 as it was much better than the Turbostas

 

[plugwash]

IIRC at least prior the pandemic the Liverpool to Nottingham portion of the Liverpool to Norwich service was frequently run with a 158 and a pair of 153s due to PRM issues (EMT were no longer allowed to use their 153s on their own, but were allowed to use them in combination with a compliant unit).

 

[Metal_gee_man]

I've used the Nottingham to SkegVegas service and looked at the 3 cars and choose the refurbished 158 over the 2 x 156s because they generally speaking have functional aircon arbeit with not perfect seats

 

[Jamesrob637]

There isn't really a huge amount of cross-class multiple working these days. In BR days, it was much more common and the Pacers/Sprinters can work together, but the Pacers are on their way out.

A more realistic situation would be found on the Continent where pure loco-hauled stock is still very much in play once you cross the old Iron Curtain and you may end up seeing carriages from two or more different countries in one train. My own personal observation comes from a trip from Vienna to Bratislava via Marchegg with an ÖBB Class 2016 hauling a Slovak carriage and three Austrian carriages:

https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?rok=2017&id=3688

With the temperature heading up to 30 degrees Celsius, it was a pretty obvious choice to go for the air-conditioned coach.

Same as my day trip from Wien to Bratislava in '06 - me and my friend did exactly that: go for the air-conditioned ZSSK compartment coach! On the return it was uniform ÖBB CityShuttle stock so we had to endure opening windows only.

 

[Jamesrob637]

IIRC at least prior the pandemic the Liverpool to Nottingham portion of the Liverpool to Norwich service was frequently run with a 158 and a pair of 153s due to PRM issues (EMT were no longer allowed to use their 153s on their own, but were allowed to use them in combination with a compliant unit).

Can confirm this as from around January until COVID-19 reduced services. I don't know if the services were timed for more than 75mph else either they would've lost time somewhat or the 153 would have had a very exciting ride!

 

[plugwash]

IIRC prior to the use of 153s, the route was run with a mix of 156's and 158s, so presumablly it was planned for 75mph.

 

[Mag_seven]

If I see a 158 combined with 150 or 155 or 156 I will always go for the 150 the 155 or the 156. I hate 158s with their non functioning air conditioning etc.

Also in Strathclyde I always prefer a 318 if combined with a 320. They always seem to be cleaner and have more comfortable seats.

 

[FLIRTfan18]

I've caught a service from Shrewsbury to Birmingham before now, made up of a 150 and a 158. On the platform at Shrewsbury a lady took hold of her small son's hand, pointed at the 158 and said, "come on, we'll get in first class".

That made me laugh
I've seen these combinations. A freshly painted 158 working with a blue 158 that in comparison looked very tired. I couldn't understand why anyone would be drawn towards the 150 - presuming the general public know nothing about the train except what it looks like when it arrives.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I've seen plenty of 142+158s, 150+158s and 153+158s in TfW before now.

 

[xotGD]

Choosing the unit with end doors is a good move in winter.

Choosing the unit with windows that open is a good move in summer.

In spring and autumn go for the comfy seats.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

IIRC at least prior the pandemic the Liverpool to Nottingham portion of the Liverpool to Norwich service was frequently run with a 158 and a pair of 153s due to PRM issues (EMT were no longer allowed to use their 153s on their own, but were allowed to use them in combination with a compliant unit).

This was my regular commute when doing Oxford Road to Liverpool South Parkway. I chose to get on the carriage which was immediately in front of me. And I chose my position on the platform to go for the emptiest part of the train. It's not that long a ride, so the chances of getting a seat are more important than how nice the rolling stock is - I'd rather sit in a 153 than stand in a 158.

 

[Ianno87]

From witnessing 142+15x combos, most 'normal' passengers don't seem fussed about which one they get on. I'd be surprised if some even managed to notice the difference...


Travelling on the 1714 Bolton-Leeds last year, it was a 142+156. I couldn't *quite* bring myself to sit on the Pacer the whole way, though it was tempting...

 

[Iskra]

I used to see this on Northern all the time.

People choosing the nicer unit, or the unit that the conductor couldn't get through to. This was mainly to avoid pacers or paying.

I'm not sure the public are as clued-up on sprinter types, but I personally avoid 150's where possible, I would even take a 142 over them.

Sometimes the passengers all jump on the rear unit at a terminus station, so I often head to the front for a quieter journey.

 

[Mikey C]

With 156-158 combinations, I recall choosing the 156 for its novelty factor for me!

On shortish journeys I'd choose a Pacer over a 150 every time

 

[AM9]

On a slightly more subtle level, I remember when Thameslink was operating with a mix of 319s and 377s, there were some experienced travellers being selective about which units they travelled in. The few 319/2 units with their Chapman 2+2 seating were often more crowded irrespective of which end they were coupled to. Similarly the few loaned Southern 377/2 units were often busier than coupled 377/5 types. Some here maintain that their seats were slightly softer/deeper.

 

[Mordac]

The WMT 170+153 combos have some of the worse discrepancy between the quality of the two units.

 

[Class172]

The WMT 170+153 combos have some of the worse discrepancy between the quality of the two units.

That may be so but often I will choose the 153 simply because I am more likely to get a seat (unlikely I know on many Hereford services), even if the legroom is slightly restricted.