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NHS changes

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Manchester77

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The major NHS report calling for internal structural changes has been released today. It states that by 2020 the NHS will cost us around £137bn however this can be brought down by efficiently changes however a further £8bn will still be needed by 2020 on top of budget increases in line with inflation. However nor the conservatives or labour are committing themselves to filling this £8bn funding gap.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/23/simon-stevens-nhs-jeremy-hunt-andy-burnham-health
Health ministers from all three main Westminster parties have refused to give a commitment to find an extra £8bn-a-year funding sought by the chief executive of NHS England in a major report looking at the looming cost pressures facing the NHS in the next five years.

The political class all embraced the report’s principles, often arguing it endorsed their existing political positions, but they all shied away from a commitment to £8bn.

Norman Lamb, the Liberal Democrat health minister, said: “There needs to be a fundamental review of funding for the NHS. He said it should start next year on an all-party basis so there was a national discussion about some of the big choices we have to make. We have to meet that gap one way or another.”

Andy Burnham, the shadow health minister, said he could not at this stage commit to £8bn, but said Labour’s £2.5bn Time to Care fund allied to his plans fully to integrate health and social care would get the party on the way to the £8bn.

He cited figures by Monitor suggesting full integration would save £4-6bn, saying “this gets you a significant amount of the way that Simon Stevens has identified”. He added the government had been wrong to reject the advice from the nurses and midwives pay review body recommending a 1% pay rise.

He said these new revenues meant Labour would not have to cut other department budgets or increase borrowing.

George Freeman, the minister for life sciences, said in government “we have put £12bn extra in this parliament” adding that David Cameron at the Conservative party conference “had agreed not just to ring fence NHS expenditure but increase it in real terms”.

He said: “What this report invites us to do is to think more profoundly about how we evolve and change healthcare. The central way to fund the NHS is to have a strong economy.”

Bruce Keogh, the NHS England medical director said unless the savings are made and unless the NHS gets the appropriate support both financially and politically “there is a risk that services will have to change, may be cut, there will be shortages of staff and there will be issues with waiting times, and there is a risk that we will have to restrict treatments.”

Earlier, rival politicians rushed to claim ownership of the Stevens report .

Making a statement to the Commons at the request of Labour, the health secretary, Jeremy Hunt, said the report was an excellent blueprint on which all parties could largely agree, before adding it exposed “Labour’s plans for the NHS as shallow party politicking”.

He accused Burnham, of “Houdini-like spin” in claiming the report showed the NHS was on the brink of collapse. Hunt said the report argued the “NHS has been remarkably successful in weathering the pressures of recent years”, adding it “made no mention of competition and privatisation being a threat to the NHS”, a claim often made by Burnham.

He added that Stevens’ report “begs Burnham not to make big structural changes to the NHS or call for a repeal of the Health and Social Care Act”, and said it calls for real-terms annual increases to the NHS along the lines the coalition government had been making in this parliament. He said the big message of the report was agreed between the parties – the need for integration of health and social care, improving investment in primary care, more GPs and more care closer to home.

Hunt claimed the public want a more measured and sensible debate, and this would be helped if the parties spoke more often about the issues in the heath service on which they agree, “rather than constantly pretending there are vast disagreements”.

But Labour, determined to make the NHS a central issue in the general election, said the report was an endorsement of the agenda developed by Burnham, who said it showed GP services had been under-resourced and that Labour had found funds for an extra 8,000 GPs by 2020.
 
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Oswyntail

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Stevens'report is a very useful attempt at tidying up the loose ends of the Lansley reforms. This was always going to be needed, and is broadly supported by those who understand across the parties. (One can discount Burnham, who is regarded as something of an idiot even within his own front bench team). What I find interesting is that, for the first time, someone is publicly addressing the relationship between GPs and the rest of the NHS, and calling for closer integration. IMHO, the main problems with the NHS, particularly funding, go right back to the start, when Bevan, scared stiff of doctors "stopped their mouths with gold", since which they have been treated as a very special case and bought off whenever they stamped their feet. Interesting development.
 

21C101

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As long as they don't adopt the Welsh model!

The reports this week about Wales NHS seem to have holed the Labour election strategy (the NHS is only safe with us) below the waterline.
 
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Manchester77

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As long as they don't adopt the Welsh model!

The reports this week about Wales NHS seem to have holed the Labour election strategy (the NHS is only safe with us) below the waterline.

The Welsh NHS has benefits such as not having the absurd internal market or the any qualified provider clause as we have in England. I wonder whether the 8.6% funding cut has anything to do with issues inn the Welsh NHS
 

muz379

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Stevens'report is a very useful attempt at tidying up the loose ends of the Lansley reforms. This was always going to be needed, and is broadly supported by those who understand across the parties. (One can discount Burnham, who is regarded as something of an idiot even within his own front bench team). What I find interesting is that, for the first time, someone is publicly addressing the relationship between GPs and the rest of the NHS, and calling for closer integration. IMHO, the main problems with the NHS, particularly funding, go right back to the start, when Bevan, scared stiff of doctors "stopped their mouths with gold", since which they have been treated as a very special case and bought off whenever they stamped their feet. Interesting development.
Really because from what I have been reading many in the shadow cabinet regard him as future leadership material .

Polls amongst party activists also regularly tip him quiet high .
 

21C101

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The Welsh NHS has benefits such as not having the absurd internal market or the any qualified provider clause as we have in England. I wonder whether the 8.6% funding cut has anything to do with issues inn the Welsh NHS

What the internal market provides is diversity and distance from politicians. Have boards of politicians and their cronies running it and you end up with more of the focus on the staff and a*se covering procedures and less on the patients (customers).

I really can't fault recent NHS treatment I have received and, frankly I don't give a flying **** who I get treated by whether publically or privately employed as long as the service is good (and the treasury picks up the tab)

The last thing I want is a longer wait because of some dogma not allowing use of private services by the NHS to get waiting lists down, which seems, according to the reports, to be one of the problems in Wales.
 

Tetchytyke

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The problem with Lansley's reforms, like Labour's reforms before them, is to assume that private providers and investors are benevolent.

PFI is one of the big challenges that is crippling the NHS. At 2012 it was estimated that PFI will cost the NHS £300bn more than the capital cost of the projects. Calderdale Hospital cost £60m capital to rebuild, but will cost the trust almost £1bn by the end of the contract. This all happened because Labour partly wanted to keep the capital expenditure off the balance sheet and partly because Labour- like the Tories- are besotted with the "efficiences" of private capital.

As for getting private providers involved, whilst it can work for some routine operations the problem is that the routine work for NHS trusts "cross-subsidises" the expensive and the complex operations. The private providers can, and will, undercut the NHS trust because they don't have the overheads but then expect the NHS trust to bail them out when something is more complex. The NHS trust is left with all the unprofitable work, and a staggeringly expensive PFI contract to boot, and then you get some rabid Thatcherite fanboi like Lansley coming in and saying it all just proves the public sector are incompetent.

And that's where the private provider can actually deliver on their contract. There are many examples where the private provider bids too low and dumps the work on the NHS anyway. Cornish out-of-hours GP provision was one example, IAPT provision in Newcastle and North Tyneside was a disaster too (and had to be bailed out by the NHS trust).

The Health and Social Care Act is going to be a disaster for the NHS, as it actively prevents long-term planning.
 
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Amberley54

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Will these be the same indoctrinated people who decided that Ed Milliband would have made an "inspired" leader of their party?

No, the membership voted strongly for David Millibrand whilst the union block vote get Ed across the winning post.

My favourite was, and still is Allan Johnson - even the Tory spin Meister Lynton Crosby admits they would be toast if Johnson is leader next May.
 
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Oswyntail

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Really because from what I have been reading many in the shadow cabinet regard him as future leadership material .

Polls amongst party activists also regularly tip him quiet high .
Anyone who has worked with him thinks differently! He does not seem able to get his head round a subject, and is much more at home simply saying "the other lot are rubbish". Of course, this may be what the party want in a leader, as it is an approach well suited to opposition these days.
 

21C101

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Anyone who has worked with him thinks differently! He does not seem able to get his head round a subject, and is much more at home simply saying "the other lot are rubbish". Of course, this may be what the party want in a leader, as it is an approach well suited to opposition these days.

This is a perennial problem with Labour. They have always made a very good opposition holding the incumbent party to account very effectively but have never been much good at doing the job themselves with every single Labour Majority government ending up in a financial crises.
 

muz379

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Will these be the same indoctrinated people who decided that Ed Milliband would have made an "inspired" leader of their party?

Yeah much like the same indoctrinated people that voted David Cameron leader of the Tory party but would turn on him in an instant .Theres no real difference between them all you know . Your lot aren't some special master race of highly gifted politicians with integrity .

Thats the problem with debating politics with indoctrinated people they cant look past their blinkers .
 
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